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If you have a top floor flat... how much sound travels through the floor?

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If you have a top floor flat... how much sound travels through the floor?

Postby The Beatsmith » Fri Oct 15, 2004 3:44 pm

Hi

My sister's been looking for a flat for me while i'm at work - she saw somewhere which apparently isn't that great but seems to be secure (top/3rd floor flat) and that's the main thing i'm after - i don't want to get burgled ever again.

Anyway, as i said it's a top floor of an old 3 story house - unsure if it's a terrace or not but i assume it is.

I will be using some quiklok BS336's (pictured here) and also have some floor standing mission speakers.

How much sound travels down through the floor? Will the speaker stands help much? And although i don't use the floor standers for studio stuff, they are on pins to reduce contact with the floor, for general hifi listening.

Would some auralex mo-pads on the stands help much with this?

I hope to have a crappy phone camera pic of the main living room/area where i will dump all my gear soon.

Cheers!

Edd
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Re: If you have a top floor flat... how much sound travels through the floor?

Postby Studio Support Gnome » Fri Oct 15, 2004 4:18 pm

If it's an old victorian london town house, then basically, lots ....

you're definitely going to be looking at doing some isolation work....

I would suggest that you make a small basic floating floor surface to mount your kit on.... (A layer of R10, then ply, then R10 then MDF or Tongue and groove flooring., then mount yer quiklok stuff on top) it needs to be a reasonable amount larger in surface area than the Workstation base to keep it as stable as possible. I'd probably look at an area 8x8, as you can sit your chair on it as well, to maintain the height relationship between you and the Desk,. also, guitar amp, Keyboard stand and so on should fit on it as well with a bit of luck.

AND use some of those Focal pods to mount the monitors on the workstation./

Mopads probably do provide a higher degree of isolation, but they also seem to allow a little more movement of the monitor, which has a negative effect on their accuracy at low frequencies, and also their stereo imaging.. At least in my experience, I've never been terribly happy with them... but they do serve a purpose in case of necessity.

My Thought is that using the Foculpods and the floating floor should provide higher accuracy, and similar, or superior decoupling.

Why so much thought......??? because i discovered , in a similar situation, that even the noise of my Pedal action on the digital piano annoyed neighbours below me.

As for actually monitoring at a sensible level??? They went nuts.... So I did pretty much as described (although as Foculpods weren't around then, I made some similar pads out of neoprene ) .
it worked well enough to get me through the next 6 months till I got a house of my own.....

Max
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Re: If you have a top floor flat... how much sound travels through the floor?

Postby The Beatsmith » Sat Oct 16, 2004 1:02 am

thanks ever so much for all your info max. well, so far it all seems a bit bleeeeek. i've got a picture of the flat, and it didn't look too great - pretty small for what my sister described a 'quite big'. However i don't know if the (tasteless) sofa on the left is flush against the wall, or what.



That's the room, with the estate agent guy in it. Don't like it, not for the obscene amount it costs. I also thought, that it isn't like a proper flat where the floor is concrete - like if you're downstairs in my parents' house, and my brother is upstairs talking, i can pretty much make out what he's saying. That's what it'd be like in this place, i guess.

In other news - max, i took the stands back. I decided that, instead of spending cash on a normal table, and stands, i'd much rather continue to save for a z-600 and an undertray for the computer keyboard:



(the computer keyboard tray isn't in that picture, but i'm sure it's not too difficult to imagine). I think that the money for stands + a 'standard' table will work out to be the same as it would for that quiklok desk. Does anyone know anywhere on the web to get prices for them? Rose Morris pro audio do them for £430, but i'm sure they're cheaper than that?

I will try to find time to view other places that are better suited, but i am pretty desperate to find a place (will be sleeping on sisters floor/sofa as of sunday) so may have to accept a much-less-than-perfect solution for a while. I'll post on here with any info if that's ok!

Cheers max

Eddie
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Re: If you have a top floor flat... how much sound travels through the floor?

Postby Adam Inglis » Sat Oct 16, 2004 5:49 am

Mate, stay away from those Quiklok speaker stands, they're hopeless. I bought a pair a while ago for my Dynaudio BM15a's... they rock and wobble, even with the spikes, due to the design using those three thin steel bars - they seem to lack rigidity.

That's a great looking desk (I can't seem to find it in my Quiklok catalogue) but I find people are veering away from tiered desks if possible (as Martin Walker said also) to avoid messing with the direct path of the speakers as much as possible. I'm looking at getting a low profile Z-stand for my mixer.

Good luck in your quest...
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Re: If you have a top floor flat... how much sound travels through the floor?

Postby The Beatsmith » Sat Oct 16, 2004 6:15 am

hi

that desk is the z-600 - try www.quiklok.it instead of quiklok.com

it's actually too big for me though. it's about 77inches wide!

a cheaper solution, which i think would be more suited to my needs, is the quiklok z-555:



This is the base unit, then you buy other bits of kit/accessories to suit your needs (they have LOADS of other bits and it's totally customisable). This 'base unit' can be had for £200. So all i would need is a panel to put my screen on (another £20 to £30 or so).

And the main desk bit is 'deep' enough for me - i need to be able to have my mackie control on the desk, with the computer keyboard in front of it. if i want a computer keyboard pull out draw i can get one of those too, to free up more space, but i don't like them. But the point is you can eventually end up with a system tailored for you, eg:



They also do a 44inch wide desk (quiklok z-544), exactly the same but.... 44inches wide!

I *think* that's my 'setup' sorted, as far as desk etc. All i need to do now is buy the desk then find somewhere to put it :bouncy: :roll:

I'll dheck out that place on monday...

Cheers

Eddie
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Re: If you have a top floor flat... how much sound travels through the floor?

Postby Studio Support Gnome » Sat Oct 16, 2004 4:35 pm

Eddie,
did you get in touch with Reg Rock....??

He had one of those complete systems for sale... attachements as well as the basic bits... a LOT less money... than buying it new,.

or am I missing something here?



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Re: If you have a top floor flat... how much sound travels through the floor?

Postby The Beatsmith » Sat Oct 16, 2004 9:31 pm

hi max

unfortunately i didn't/don't have the cash to give to reg - i'll need to get paid first so i didn't wanna enquire about it and then be like.... "oh that's really nice.... well if i did have money, i'd buy it" :beamup:

If there's any chance he's still got it when i can afford it, he'll be the first to know :)

Cheers mate

Eddie
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Re: If you have a top floor flat... how much sound travels through the floor?

Postby The Beatsmith » Sun Oct 17, 2004 1:31 am

ack, it's sold :frown: oh well

guys, re: the picture of the flat (i'm starting to not care what the place looks like if i can have my music stuff there) - the bit on the left of the pic has a couple of feet of space behind the sofa, and also, the left hand side is where the neighbours are (ain't their bedroom either, which is good) - no neighbours on the side with the slanted bit at the top.

Just for future reference - if you have neighbours on one side, is it best to have you speakers far away but FACING the wall, or is it best to put them pointing the other direction, but NEAR the wall?

Thanks guys
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Re: If you have a top floor flat... how much sound travels through the floor?

Postby Steve Hill » Mon Oct 18, 2004 11:27 pm

If you have not bought yet, don't buy a flat in a typical London town house (on any floor!). I'd really give the agents a poser up front and say it's concrete floors or nothing. I've lived in both and also had the "joys" of trying to improve isolation with a wooden floor. IMHO nothing really works.

It's not just you and your noise. It cuts both ways. You will find a good mic will pick up the neighbours' TV programmes or whatever while you are tracking.

Oh yes, and spikes on hi-fi speakers are not to minimise contact with the floor, but to ensure you do get contact with the floor e.g. through carpets. They turn the floor into a soundboard, which will also piss off neighbours below.
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Re: If you have a top floor flat... how much sound travels through the floor?

Postby The Beatsmith » Tue Oct 19, 2004 9:11 am

hi guys

well it won't be a london victorian house.... but more likely a cardiff victorian house :)

i went and had a look at the one in the pic... forget it i'm not living there.

i don't really have the choice to be picky anymore, as there is very little to choose from. one way around this problem, is, perhaps i should get a ground floor flat?

That way, i'd be able to make more noise?

It just so happens that nearly all the places around (which is nothing at all, really) are ground anyway.

Would this help or....?

Cheers
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Re: If you have a top floor flat... how much sound travels through the floor?

Postby Matt Downing » Tue Oct 19, 2004 10:16 am

I live in London and a few years ago I lived in a flat above a shop - a hairdressers, in fact. While this was quite noisy during opening hours as they had speakers up in the corners by the ceiling, in the evenings and Sundays I could make as much noise as I liked as there was nobody in below me. That worked out pretty well for me at the time.

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Re: If you have a top floor flat... how much sound travels through the floor?

Postby The Beatsmith » Tue Oct 19, 2004 10:28 am

ha!

was talking to a guy at work - he said he knew a woman that was offering a newly decorated place above a hairdressers and would i be interested as i'm into all that music lark and i could make as much noise as i like!

i'll look into it!

cheers
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Re: If you have a top floor flat... how much sound travels through the floor?

Postby Wease » Tue Oct 19, 2004 11:59 am

sounds good to me - security whilst your at work (due tothe hairdressers being open)...noisy when you like in evenings and sundays....and free haircuts!

I'd definatly look at it!
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Re: If you have a top floor flat... how much sound travels through the floor?

Postby The Beatsmith » Tue Oct 19, 2004 12:04 pm

hehehe

also beats having a ground floor flat - main reason i didn't want one was due to security!
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Re: If you have a top floor flat... how much sound travels through the floor?

Postby thefruitfarmer » Tue Oct 19, 2004 8:04 pm

I lived for 10 years in a flat above a neighbour with a wooden floor between us. I built a floating floor, which worked to some extent, but was not really satisfactory. My sounds still vibrated the walls and the family below were never very happy with my experiments in hard house.

A flat above a shop is a much better option and these flats are usually cheaper to buy as well.

I now live in a flat above a Mon-Fri business so I can make as much noise as I like in the music room away from the party wall.

I reckon it is often cheaper and easier to find premises where there are no neighbours to annoy than it is to carry out sound insulation work. I spent maybe 800 pounds to build floating floors on 2 12' by 10' rooms and the level of insulation was still not enough to stop the neighbour banging the broom on his ceiling.
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