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Sound quality difference btwn, logic/apogee + protools 8 le

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Re: Sound quality difference btwn, logic/apogee + protools 8 le

Postby Grantsos » Mon Feb 22, 2010 10:43 pm

deadman wrote:TRUST ME! Logic has an insurmountable midi input issue with which i cannot work! End of story.

I'm just dying to know what that issue is, for some reason...?

I would choose Apogee too, but you need to audition and A/B the systems yourself.
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Re: Sound quality difference btwn, logic/apogee + protools 8 le

Postby Andy McBain » Mon Feb 22, 2010 11:00 pm

Grantsos wrote:
deadman wrote:TRUST ME! Logic has an insurmountable midi input issue with which i cannot work! End of story.

I'm just dying to know what that issue is, for some reason...?

+1
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Re: Sound quality difference btwn, logic/apogee + protools 8 le

Postby deadman » Tue Feb 23, 2010 12:14 am

Ok i'm sorry i got narky, really, i've just really had it with people that reply to a question with a completely irrelevant answer, i wanted to know what differences between the hardware were, simply in terms of sound quality, i've done my research and know the feature sets etc... i had the same thing when trying to solve the Logic issue i was having time and time again, rather than answer the question, i'd get "why would you want to do that anyway?" THAT'S ANNOYING!!! Sorry but i see it no better than spamming or thread hijacking. If you really must know, the problem i have with logic is with midi programming, i feel i have tried to explain this a thousand times, i write drum tracks using Superior 2, the drum software is irrelevant but hey, i have used drum machines for nigh on 20 years, and for the last 14 of those, MPC's, now, i want to write my drum tracks in the same way as i've always done, in real time, looping small sections, or patterns, i will for instance, loop two bars, tap out a groove, and while still running, maybe hit a pad again in the same spot to adjust the velocity, to get the feel right, on every drum machine, and every DAW i've used, this will replace the old note with the new one, this doesn't happen in Logic, it will either make a new take, or stack it up over the old one, so you lose the whole lot or end up with two simultaneous phasing hits, how am i supposed to get the feel like that?!?! There is NOTHING you can do to change it, i have been moaning to them about it since Logic 8 came out, and through all the updates AND now Logic 9, still the same ridiculous problem. You cannot program without stopping, deleting duplicate notes or adjusting velocities manually, all of which means reverting to the mouse, and most of all stopping!!! That really sucks and is mind bogglingly frustrating! I'm done with logic, as much as love it for everything else. I want to get rid of my MPC, they are great to but not without they're own weird issues like going out of time in song mode... Don't EVEN get me started on that! :) i want to be able to do EVERYTHING in one place, people have suggested i buy a drum machine plug-in, to use in Logic, but why the hell should i? I bought Logic, it has a sequencer, it just happens to suck donkey balls when it comes to drum programming!!!!
So, i want to shove there software right up their arse and start afresh with something that will work for me, Ableton i know works the way i want without having to set it up or do anything, it just works exactly as you would expect of a sequencer, but i don't like the layout so am looking at alternatives, Pro Tools always gets a good word or two but there are like no actual in depth reviews that i can find that give me the info i need, i really would buy it on the word of a trusted review, but couldn't find one so i came here...
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Re: Sound quality difference btwn, logic/apogee + protools 8 le

Postby JamesSimpson » Tue Feb 23, 2010 12:26 am

I don't think Pro Tools will do this either, although it's quite difficult to understand your problem. You need to set your sequencer to delete previous midi notes i suppose, problem with this is that you will delete everything else that you don't play in.
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Re: Sound quality difference btwn, logic/apogee + protools 8 le

Postby deadman » Tue Feb 23, 2010 12:30 am

Exactly :frown: If your drum machine did that, how long before you catapulted it into orbit?
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Re: Sound quality difference btwn, logic/apogee + protools 8 le

Postby deadman » Tue Feb 23, 2010 12:49 am

Now, back to my question??? :)
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Re: Sound quality difference btwn, logic/apogee + protools 8 le

Postby JamesSimpson » Tue Feb 23, 2010 1:21 am

Buy a drum machine as neither logic nor pro tools will help you,
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Re: Sound quality difference btwn, logic/apogee + protools 8 le

Postby markvr4 » Tue Feb 23, 2010 5:36 am

deadman wrote:Now, back to my question??? :)

I don't have any experience with the 003 so I can't help in that regard, but I recently did extensive audio interface comparison shopping myself, and I went with the Apogee Ensemble. After using it for the past month, my opinion is that the sound lives up to every bit of it's specs. But like others already mentioned, if you don't trust the specs, your only other option is to listen to the different models yourself. What good does the completely subjective opinion of strangers do you? We all have unique levels of high frequency hearing loss so they will sound a little different to all of us!

On a side note, I also switched to Logic 9 at the same time as purchasing the Ensemble. Prior to that I had used Ableton Live Suite for a few years. My opinion is that Ableton has the best user interface of any sequencer in terms of ease of use and workflow. However, Logic's synths, instruments, and plugins sound much better than Ableton's, and the differences in the user interface and workflow in Logic are not that big of a deal to me.

However, given what you are trying to accomplish with looping, I would guess that if you can't do it the way you want in Ableton, you probably won't be able to it in any sequencer without using some kind of plugin. Midi definitely has some weaknesses--but that's what we've got to work with for now. You probably will have to use something created specifically for groove creation to get the behavior you want.

Depending on how important this is to you and how much work you are willing to put into it, the new Max for (Ableton) Live looks like it can do some pretty powerful things as far as instrument and effect programming. It's sort of a drag-n-drop musical programming environment. But it isn't included with the Live Suite and it's pretty expensive for an add-on unless you are into some serious sound design or custom effects.

Good luck with your quest!
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Re: Sound quality difference btwn, logic/apogee + protools 8 le

Postby Urthlupe » Tue Feb 23, 2010 9:18 am

Hi Deadman

I run Logic, Cubase and PTLE on a MacPro.

I have a Digidesign 003R and the Apogee Rosetta 800/Symphony system, I also at one time ran the Apogee Ensemble and have owned an Mbox 2 Pro.

If your question is simply about AD/DA and preamp quality between these units then I'd say it has already been said. The quality of AD/DA conversion is to my ears much better on the Apogee (unsurprisingly) run a close second by the RME interfaces I have used. The Digidesign converters live pretty much in the mid range quality-wise for me.

In terms of preamps - my ears would put RME first above the Ensemble which felt pretty similar in this respect to the 003R.

To me RME also deserve a special mention in terms of build quality - although the Rosetta's are a different animal, I found the build quality of the Ensemble disappointing.

Have you considered clocking the 003R from an external source (say, a higher quality interface) and then connecting an RME or Apogee via ADAT? Limitation is that SMUX is not available on the 003R therefore you are limited to 48kHz or below in terms of sample frequency. Apogee for instance provide instructions as to how to do this on their site.

Incidentally - I understand your frustration.

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Re: Sound quality difference btwn, logic/apogee + protools 8 le

Postby deadman » Tue Feb 23, 2010 9:58 am

markvr4 wrote:

However, given what you are trying to accomplish with looping, I would guess that if you can't do it the way you want in Ableton, you probably won't be able to it in any sequencer without using some kind of plugin.

Yet another person who can't or wont read!


Urthlupe wrote:Hi Deadman

I run Logic, Cubase and PTLE on a MacPro.

I have a Digidesign 003R and the Apogee Rosetta 800/Symphony system, I also at one time ran the Apogee Ensemble and have owned an Mbox 2 Pro.

If your question is simply about AD/DA and preamp quality between these units then I'd say it has already been said. The quality of AD/DA conversion is to my ears much better on the Apogee (unsurprisingly) run a close second by the RME interfaces I have used. The Digidesign converters live pretty much in the mid range quality-wise for me.

In terms of preamps - my ears would put RME first above the Ensemble which felt pretty similar in this respect to the 003R.

To me RME also deserve a special mention in terms of build quality - although the Rosetta's are a different animal, I found the build quality of the Ensemble disappointing.

Have you considered clocking the 003R from an external source (say, a higher quality interface) and then connecting an RME or Apogee via ADAT? Limitation is that SMUX is not available on the 003R therefore you are limited to 48kHz or below in terms of sample frequency. Apogee for instance provide instructions as to how to do this on their site.

Incidentally - I understand your frustration.

Loopy

And FINALLY someone who can :) Thankyou..

I will keep trying with Ableton, but have yet to try Digital Performer which definately looks nicer, but looks aren't everything, so the missus says :) As for the hardware, think i'm starting to get the picture, but surely the 003 can't be any worse than the semi-permanantly loaned MOTU 828 mk2 i'm currently using?
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Re: Sound quality difference btwn, logic/apogee + protools 8 le

Postby johnny h » Tue Feb 23, 2010 10:32 am

deadman wrote:
markvr4 wrote:

However, given what you are trying to accomplish with looping, I would guess that if you can't do it the way you want in Ableton, you probably won't be able to it in any sequencer without using some kind of plugin.

Yet another person who can't or wont read!
:boring:
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Re: Sound quality difference btwn, logic/apogee + protools 8 le

Postby The Fold Studios » Tue Feb 23, 2010 11:27 am

Yet another person who can't or wont read!


Yet another ungracious comment from someone whom everyone is trying to help. You seem to have been friendly to Urthlupe simpley because he said he understands your frustration. If you bothered to read the first paragraph of Markvr4's comment you'll notice it was a direct answer to your question. Just because he happened to elaborate by giving you some informaiton he felt may have helped you, you react by burning out this rather short fuse of yours. perhaps you've had a few too many late nights on logic recently.

I don't know why I'm even bothering to reply really. Johnny h is on the money. I just find lack of respect such an odious characteristic. :madas:
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Re: Sound quality difference btwn, logic/apogee + protools 8 le

Postby The Elf » Tue Feb 23, 2010 12:12 pm

+1

A forum is a place for discussion. It is not anyone’s ‘service-level-guaranteed’ personal help line. Ask for help, but don’t *demand* it.

A forum is not a place to demand personalised, targeted answers to your specific problem. Ask, by all means, but be gracious. People are giving their time, knowledge and skills for free. Accept that respondents might not always give you the answer you want to hear. Some will misunderstand – provide guidance. Some will suggest alternatives – be considerate of such suggestions. Others will simply take the chance to answer (or ask) a different question – be accepting.

If the answers here aren’t to your liking, then go elsewhere. I think you’ll find some of those other places far less forgiving.

I suggest a couple of apologies are in order, then maybe you’ll get more advice, If not, then I, for one, hope that everyone considers this thread dead.
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Re: Sound quality difference btwn, logic/apogee + protools 8 le

Postby deadman » Tue Feb 23, 2010 12:31 pm

I asked a simple question and got bollox replies, the Ableton quote was the OPPOSITE of what i said which proved he didn't even read it, so WHY POST!!!!???? i agreed with the other guy and thanked him because HE'S IS THE ONLY PERSON WHO HAS REPLIED WITH THE EXPERIENCED OPINION I ASKED FOR!!! the ONLY one! out of all the posts, it's YOUR unhelpful timewasting crap that has ruined this thread, it was not me, get a life and stop replying to peoples questions when you have NO ANSWERS for them!! loser!
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Re: Sound quality difference btwn, logic/apogee + protools 8 le

Postby Tomás Mulcahy » Tue Feb 23, 2010 12:35 pm

What fun. A troll.
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