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What are "1/8 T" timings, for example?

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What are "1/8 T" timings, for example?

Postby alexis » Tue Dec 08, 2015 12:30 am

Hi - Can someone help me find the intended beat on the "T" choices in plug-ins please?

I know a plain old triplet, where there are three hits to a beat instead of two/or another even number.

But when it is labelled, "1/4 T", "1/8 T", etc., what does that mean?

(I'm asking because I have a delay plug in with those options, and I actually like the 1/8 T more than any of the conventional ones ... but it doesn't sound even *close at all* to a normal 1/8 to my ears).

Thanks!
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Re: What are "1/8 T" timings, for example?

Postby The Elf » Tue Dec 08, 2015 9:17 am

alexis wrote:I'm asking because I have a delay plug in with those options, and I actually like the 1/8 T more than any of the conventional ones ... but it doesn't sound even *close at all* to a normal 1/8 to my ears.

It wouldn't sound like a normal 1/8, because it's not a normal 1/8!

Triplets are simply a way of dividing time by 3 and 6 instead of 2, 4 or 8. By doing that you end up at points in a bar that give a different feel to delays - by allowing a 3/4 waltz time over the time of a 4/4 bar, for example.
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Re: What are "1/8 T" timings, for example?

Postby alexis » Tue Dec 08, 2015 1:53 pm

Thank you The Elf! What I don't know is how much delay a "1/8T" is, I'm not familiar with that notation. Is it one third of an eighth note?
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Re: What are "1/8 T" timings, for example?

Postby Richie Royale » Tue Dec 08, 2015 3:24 pm

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Re: What are "1/8 T" timings, for example?

Postby Hugh Robjohns » Tue Dec 08, 2015 3:31 pm

alexis wrote:Thank you The Elf! What I don't know is how much delay a "1/8T" is, I'm not familiar with that notation. Is it one third of an eighth note?


No, it's the duration of an eigth note when played as a triplet.

Let's take a simple 4/4 rhythm at 60bpm, to keep the sums easy. 60 crochet (1/4 note) beats in one minute means the duration between individual crotchets is (60 seconds/60 beats =) 1 second, or 1000ms.

You get two quavers to the beat of one crotchet, so the duration between quavers (1/8 notes) would obviously be half as much, so 500ms.

But if those quavers have to be played as a triplet in a three-to-a-beat format, we need three in a 1000ms period, so each individual one becomes 333.3ms.

Does that help?

H
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Re: What are "1/8 T" timings, for example?

Postby alexis » Tue Dec 08, 2015 4:32 pm

Richie Royale wrote:http://www.sengpielaudio.com/calculator-bpmtempotime.htm This should help :)

Hugh Robjohns wrote:
... it's the duration of an eigth note when played as a triplet.

Let's take a simple 4/4 rhythm at 60bpm, to keep the sums easy. 60 crochet (1/4 note) beats in one minute means the duration between individual crotchets is (60 seconds/60 beats =) 1 second, or 1000ms.

You get two quavers to the beat of one crotchet, so the duration between quavers (1/8 notes) would obviously be half as much, so 500ms.

But if those quavers have to be played as a triplet in a three-to-a-beat format, we need three in a 1000ms period, so each individual one becomes 333.3ms.

Does that help?

H

Thank you, thank you, thank you! :)
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Re: What are "1/8 T" timings, for example?

Postby damoore » Tue Dec 08, 2015 6:24 pm

I've not seen this notation before either. So what about 6/8 time? A beat is three quavers in 6/8, or eighth notes as the Americans call them, so it would presumably still be written 1/8T. On a chart you would write (dotted crotchet)=60 (say) so that would work.

Why not be simple and obvious and write is as 1/12?

Never understood the American nomenclature either. Why is a "quarter note" an eighth of a breve? You might say because it is a quarter of a bar, but then in 3/4, it's still called a quarter note!
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Re: What are "1/8 T" timings, for example?

Postby alexis » Wed Dec 09, 2015 1:22 am

damoore wrote:I've not seen this notation before either. So what about 6/8 time? A beat is three quavers in 6/8, or eighth notes as the Americans call them, so it would presumably still be written 1/8T. On a chart you would write (dotted crotchet)=60 (say) so that would work.

Why not be simple and obvious and write is as 1/12?

Never understood the American nomenclature either. Why is a "quarter note" an eighth of a breve? You might say because it is a quarter of a bar, but then in 3/4, it's still called a quarter note!

If I remember correctly (Yank speaking here) from long ago: when written x/y, it means the y note gets one beat, and there are x beats to the measure.

So, 2/4 means the quarter note (crochet?) gets one beat, and there are two to the measure.

And 3/4 means the quarter note (crotchet?) gets one beat, and there are three to the measure.

and 6/8 means the eighth note (quaver?) gets one beat, and there are six of them to the measure.

Finally, iirc, the definition of a quarter note is simply how it is drawn - the filled in dot with a stem (the unfilled-in dot being a "half-note", whatever you guys call that) - rather than its musical function. The eighth note is drawn with the stem having one little flag at the top.

Oh Lord, this is probably all wrong, ruined by decades of bad vodka and women of loose virtue. OK, I made that part up, but I need an excuse for not remembering something so basic ... :D

Maybe someone who knows what they're really talking about regarding the "American nomenclature" can chip in? (I had no idea until quite recently, when I came across the funny words crotchet/quaver on *this* site, that there were different "nomenclatures").
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Re: What are "1/8 T" timings, for example?

Postby Exalted Wombat » Wed Dec 09, 2015 1:56 pm

damoore wrote:I've not seen this notation before either. So what about 6/8 time? A beat is three quavers in 6/8, or eighth notes as the Americans call them, so it would presumably still be written 1/8T. On a chart you would write (dotted crotchet)=60 (say) so that would work.

Why not be simple and obvious and write is as 1/12?

Never understood the American nomenclature either. Why is a "quarter note" an eighth of a breve? You might say because it is a quarter of a bar, but then in 3/4, it's still called a quarter note!

No, if you're in 6/8 time, quavers are 1/8 in sequencer-talk. Three triplet quavers (1/8T in sequencer-talk) add up to a crotchet. In 6/8 you're using ordinary quavers, three of which add up to a dotted crotchet. In a sequencer, if your music includes quavers AND triplets it's usually simpler to choose a crotchet-based time-signature - 3/4, 4/4 etc. But if you need something more complex, perhaps the "Silent Night" rhythm - dotted quaver, semiquaver, quaver - your sequencer will be much happier in 6/8 (or 9/8, 12/8...). Not, of course, that you HAVE to quantize, or worry what the notation would look like!

There's no point in worrying about either the British or American musicians names for notes. Just understand the arithmetic.
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Re: What are "1/8 T" timings, for example?

Postby damoore » Wed Dec 09, 2015 10:06 pm

alexis wrote:
If I remember correctly (Yank speaking here) from long ago: when written x/y, it means the y note gets one beat, and there are x beats to the measure.

That makes sense. I had never connected the term to the time signature, but now you mention that, it seems obvious. It's long long ago but I think when I was taught this stuff the "/4" was stated to mean crotchets and "/8" to mean quavers (and /2 minims) without further explanation. Pretty sure I never heard the term "quarter note" until I came to the US. I remember getting a funny look when I asked the conductor "do you mean this crotchet" when he had told me something like "accent the second quarter note in bar 19".

Of course it also begs the question of how we got from counting time in semibreves to crotchets or quavers. Which according to wikipedia we used to do (count in semibreves). The breve, it says, was either two or three semibreves, which I did not know until just now. So the semibreve was a fixed unit while the breve depended upon the "time signature" and basically, it would appear, became a bar when bars were invented.
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Re: What are "1/8 T" timings, for example?

Postby turbodave » Thu Dec 10, 2015 3:47 pm

A simple way of thinking about time signatures...the bottom number refers to a type of note..4 for crotchet, 8 for quaver etc...and the top number refers to how many of said note. Dave
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Re: What are "1/8 T" timings, for example?

Postby chris... » Fri Dec 11, 2015 12:01 am

alexis wrote:Thank you The Elf! What I don't know is how much delay a "1/8T" is, I'm not familiar with that notation.

Is it one third of an eighth note?

It's two thirds of an eighth note!

( hence the duration of 1/4T is two thirds the duration of 1/4 etc )
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Re: What are "1/8 T" timings, for example?

Postby chris... » Fri Dec 11, 2015 12:04 am

turbodave wrote:A simple way of thinking about time signatures...the bottom number refers to a type of note..4 for crotchet, 8 for quaver etc...and the top number refers to how many of said note.

Indeed, that's the very definition of the time signature notation.
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Re: What are "1/8 T" timings, for example?

Postby Phil0 » Sat Jan 23, 2016 11:54 pm

A triplet is always three notes played in the time of two of the same, regardless of time signature. If you were to look at the piano roll editor and select a division 8 (quavers to normal people) you can fill 8 quavers in a bar of 4/4. If you were to change the division from 8 to 12 you will see you can fit three notes in for every two you had before.
I wonder if visually this might help.

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