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The Doctor's Band

Advice on everything from getting your music heard to setting up a label and royalties.

Re: The Doctor's Band

Postby Guest271017 » Fri Apr 28, 2017 1:56 pm

Everything today is one-hit-wonder based. With youtube and other means of scouring for talent, the old way of taking chances on acts before proofing their popularity on a wider scale than regional, has become extinct. A quick look at view count and diversity of the people commenting have the old way beat. It's the shortest payout for the longest dollar that rules, just like anything else these days. How many pop stars got their break on the talent shows of today as opposed to touring a club circuit for years, building up a support base.

I don't think you can compare literature to music, unless it's spoken books. The activities are different on a lot of levels.
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Re: The Doctor's Band

Postby James Perrett » Fri Apr 28, 2017 4:21 pm

petev3.1 wrote:Why is nobody offering bands an expert advice, release and promotion service for a reasonable fee? Why do competent labels not offer to release anything they feel is good for a fee?

A few thoughts...

That's exactly what publicists and pluggers do. The problem is finding the good ones if you aren't already part of the industry.

And labels do release things that they feel is good - there's a whole independent label industry who are mainly in it for the music. If you ignore the majors and go with the independents that specialise in your genre you may be more successful in the long term.

As with all music related stuff - it is about making contacts and knowing who's who and what's what. You never know who you might meet when playing gigs or going to gigs - as an example; the bass player in a band we played with in a local pub went on to run one of the most successful indie labels in the last 10 years.
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Re: The Doctor's Band

Postby blinddrew » Fri Apr 28, 2017 8:27 pm

petev3.1 wrote: The self-publishing market in books is a model, where the publisher does all the stuff the author cannot do and advises them etc. Is this not a potential earner for any out of work ex-A&R exec. or manager?
Not sure that's such a good example anymore. Basically all a publisher does nowadays is gets books on shelves. Everything else is pretty much down to the author (especially for your first work). There are the usual lucky few exceptions of course, but for most you have to have written it, edited it, found your agent, already built your publicity machine, have a string of short-story publications (or similar) plus a few awards and generally established your credentials.
The value that a publishing house adds is now considerably smaller than it was. Hence so many people are just self-publishing direct online.
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Re: The Doctor's Band

Postby shufflebeat » Fri Apr 28, 2017 11:15 pm

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Re: The Doctor's Band

Postby Aurongroove » Sat Apr 29, 2017 4:22 am

Some great responses.

And here, back in the warzone, it does seem like we had to "do it first then bring it to them" anyways.
It;s just a shame one has to start without knowing the "them" the "what to do", or, the how to do it or fund it.
you gotta go on bling guessing and judgment.

You can't so very well 'network first', like go around saying "well, we're only networking in theory, so we know what kind of situation we're dealing with, before we spend two years making an album"

you gotta "do it blind" and then hope, with all the little decisions you had to make, it winds up being what it needed to be in that moment someone watches it, reads it, hears it, or hovers over a like button or a subscribe button, or a pledge button.

And the momentum tax is quite harsh as well. Last September I was guessing a January release, now I'm guessing May. the milestones have all needed "effort overdraughts" drawn out against the next milestone. I'm worries that by the time a regular 'Joe-Soap' can buy the album in a shop or in iTunes, it'll be the 6th time we've popped the Aldi's Fizzy wine cork-or-plastic-lid and said "Right OK this time we've finally done it"


Still though, life's for learning. :beamup:
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Re: The Doctor's Band

Postby Aurongroove » Sat Apr 29, 2017 4:24 am

shufflebeat wrote:Punk Freud
:lol: Keeping
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Re: The Doctor's Band

Postby petev3.1 » Sat Apr 29, 2017 1:57 pm

Hmm. Perhaps book publishing was a poor example. But it's not a question of taking chances on artists. This is self-publishing. The idea would be to charge them up-front. Their success or failure would make no difference to the main fee. It might only be an advisory role or it might be comprehensive management, but it would be a professional service and not a punt on the artist for a percentage.

It may be impractical for various reasons, but as the OP indicates there's a demand.
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Re: The Doctor's Band

Postby blinddrew » Sat Apr 29, 2017 2:15 pm

On that we agree, a more straightforward, transaction-based approach. Not dissimilar to the way you approach studio time.
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Re: The Doctor's Band

Postby Aurongroove » Sun Apr 30, 2017 2:00 am

Or like we paid the layer guy (our album is a parody of a film), we just paid him his fee and he offered his experience and knowledge.
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Re: The Doctor's Band

Postby gridsleep » Sun Apr 30, 2017 9:02 am

I read the title and thought it was an article about Peter Capaldi and Craig Ferguson getting the band back together.
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Re: The Doctor's Band

Postby CS70 » Sun Apr 30, 2017 9:45 pm

petev3.1 wrote:Going back a bit...

Why is nobody offering bands an expert advice, release and promotion service for a reasonable fee? Why do competent labels not offer to release anything they feel is good for a fee? It worked for Taylor Swift, albeit that was a big money deal. It's almost a no-risk situation for the consultant/label, and with the right contract could occasionally bring in a lot more than the initial fees.

Given the membership here this question should be answerable. The self-publishing market in books is a model, where the publisher does all the stuff the author cannot do and advises them etc. Is this not a potential earner for any out of work ex-A&R exec. or manager?

I would guess it's just the math that doesn't add up? There's gazillions of hopefuls, a few of which making music which has any chance of making any kind of money (by working dozens of live shows per year and attracting enough paying audience to become profitable) and a few of 'em few would actually reaching commercial success.

To have any meaningful returns, any fixed fee would have to be far than reasonable.

It was already a questionable model when recorded music had some economic value, nowadays when most of the returns come from playing live, I guess it'd be a recipe for ending up sleeping on the street.

Just a guess of course, I haven't run any actual math. :)
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Re: The Doctor's Band

Postby Aurongroove » Sun Apr 30, 2017 11:13 pm

Earlier in the week I sent a "50quid" message to a blogger, who at the time was chatting live to about 2600 people, on his youtube account (with in total has about 1,000,000 subscribers).

I asked him to come watch our music video, "because it would be cool knowing he'd seen it" and gave him the band name and video name

He read out our band name, the video title and thanked me for the donation to his channel,

that message and donation lead to, within an hour, 200 views from his channel coming over to see our video, and a steady stream ever since, since that playback of his live talk is now up on youtube and being slowly watched by some of the other 1,000,000 people subscribed to his channel.

Mostly, (in fact all) positive, feedback, from these people about our video.


Now that was 50quid well spent, but why isn't there someone I could give 200 quid to , who could, meet us for one hour, listen to the stuff, and if he/she didn't like the stuff they would give us advice for the future, or if they did, pass it on to people of influence?

a GP charges whatever he does an hour. So do specialists in any number of fields. Why hasn't somebody monetized music business consultancy?
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Re: The Doctor's Band

Postby Guest » Mon May 01, 2017 8:48 am

Aurongroove wrote:... Now that was 50quid well spent, but why isn't there someone I could give 200 quid to , who could, meet us for one hour, listen to the stuff, and if he/she didn't like the stuff they would give us advice for the future, or if they did, pass it on to people of influence?

a GP charges whatever he does an hour. So do specialists in any number of fields. Why hasn't somebody monetized music business consultancy?


The music has no direction or energy and lacks a hook, the video is naff, that’s my honest opinion.

Just suppose I’m this ‘specialist’ and the above is my expert opinion, wot you gonna do about it? Cry or improve? how can you improve if you don’t know something’s wrong in the first place?

Nobody can tell you how to do it, writing HITS is not something that can be learnt, only experienced.

As a songwriter you are wot you listen to, if you listen to average music there’s a fair chance that’s wot you’ll produce.

The track lacks so much, it sounds half-hearted and half-done, there could/should be a lot more substance and energy in there.

It needs producing, find a producer, then, if’n when you write & produced a hit between you, just send it to a music Promo company, specialists in fact, you’ll pay ’em 200 quid +, and they’ll get it on the radio etc, then Bob’s yer aunt and Fanny’s yer Transgender uncle, ‘ow ‘ard’s that?

My opinion is it’s not good enough and that you need to do a fair bit better, if you can’t then you need people involved who can.
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Re: The Doctor's Band

Postby Aurongroove » Tue May 02, 2017 9:23 pm

I think you're misunderstanding the situation Ldash, in several ways.

First off, if you were "this specialist"
The music has no direction or energy and lacks a hook, the video is naff, that’s my honest opinion.
is opinion, not direction.
You wouldn't be "this specialist" for very long if that was the best you could do, paid or unpaid. I given better direction on EDM forums, for free, as a hobby.

Secondly if you were "this specialist" and you were otherwise respected in your field, and had connections in the industry, and had successes in the field too but this was genuinely your best effort. To say that that we were simply beyond directing/advising, and that we just vaguely needed "more enegry and production" before we may ring up and order our fame from "specialists, in fact" for a small fee.

Why, would we, or anyone "cry" about it?

Sorry, but you're advice in general stems from a misguided understanding of the conversation. It's also, in itself quite vague, and even by my own standards, naive and misinformed.
In fact, It serves as a prime example of the kind of stuff we would be avoiding if there were the availability of "this specialist".
No offence.
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Re: The Doctor's Band

Postby ConcertinaChap » Tue May 02, 2017 10:10 pm

Have to say that although my tastes in music are an awful long way from most (dyed-in-the-wool folky with strong leanings towards the traditional end) I watched and listened right to the end of your video, which is most unusual for me. It was well worth it. Excellent.

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