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All about the tools and techniques involved in capturing sound, in the studio or on location.

Re: NT-SF1

Postby Bob Bickerton » Mon Nov 26, 2018 10:50 pm

blinddrew wrote:Yeah, but think about it CC, when would it be useful for you to be able to capture the complete atmosphere of a live performance in a natural and ambient way with just a single, relatively discreet, microphone?
I mean, it's, it's, it's, kind of exactly what you do really isn't it?

Maybe it could be inserted inside his concertina?

Probably shouldn't say this, but I once removed the bellow pins and inserted a jar of peanut butter and a packet of (savoury) biscuits inside a friend's melodeon, before replacing the bellow pins and taking off. I came back some minutes later to find him playing the melodeon but complaining he thought some of the reeds were sticking. Our mirth alerted him to the fact that something more was amiss. Fortunately the burst packet of biscuits didn't seem to do much damage to a melodeon that was well past its use by date, may have even improved things............

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Re: NT-SF1

Postby Wonks » Mon Nov 26, 2018 11:06 pm

blinddrew wrote:Yeah, but think about it CC, when would it be useful for you to be able to capture the complete atmosphere of a live performance in a natural and ambient way with just a single, relatively discreet, microphone?

Well, a discrete collection of four microphones.

But you've still got placement issues for instrument balance. And if the group form a circle around the mic, how do you then create a workable stereo image for normal use (rather than a surround sound one)? You'd have to go mono.
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Re: NT-SF1

Postby ConcertinaChap » Mon Nov 26, 2018 11:30 pm

blinddrew wrote:Yeah, but think about it CC, when would it be useful for you to be able to capture the complete atmosphere of a live performance in a natural and ambient way with just a single, relatively discreet, microphone?
I mean, it's, it's, it's, kind of exactly what you do really isn't it?

Hammer, let me introduce you to nail.

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Re: NT-SF1

Postby Sam Spoons » Tue Nov 27, 2018 12:11 am

Life's tough CC, but, ask yourself this, how good would it be for live miking a concertina?
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Re: NT-SF1

Postby Sam Inglis » Tue Nov 27, 2018 10:02 am

Wonks wrote: if the group form a circle around the mic, how do you then create a workable stereo image for normal use (rather than a surround sound one)? You'd have to go mono.

Not at all! You can decode an Ambisonic mic to a stereo array that has a 360-degree acceptance angle (back to back cardioids). Or you can decode it to multiple spot mics pointing at the individual musicians, and pan those as you like.
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Re: NT-SF1

Postby Wonks » Tue Nov 27, 2018 10:21 am

Sam Inglis wrote:
Wonks wrote: if the group form a circle around the mic, how do you then create a workable stereo image for normal use (rather than a surround sound one)? You'd have to go mono.

Not at all! You can decode an Ambisonic mic to a stereo array that has a 360-degree acceptance angle (back to back cardioids). Or you can decode it to multiple spot mics pointing at the individual musicians, and pan those as you like.

OK, I see. Thanks.
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Re: NT-SF1

Postby ConcertinaChap » Tue Nov 27, 2018 10:45 am

Sam Inglis wrote:Not at all! You can decode an Ambisonic mic to a stereo array that has a 360-degree acceptance angle (back to back cardioids). Or you can decode it to multiple spot mics pointing at the individual musicians, and pan those as you like.

This was what I got from the article and what is making me seriously think about saving up some shekels. I really like the idea of this flexibility. Thanks for that, Sam.

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Re: NT-SF1

Postby Wonks » Tue Nov 27, 2018 11:19 am

It also allows you to virtually remove that one player with bad timing or an out-of tune instrument from the mix. ;)
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Re: NT-SF1

Postby ConcertinaChap » Tue Nov 27, 2018 11:27 am

:D
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Re: NT-SF1

Postby Mike Stranks » Tue Nov 27, 2018 11:43 am

Apart from the fact that I could never justify spending that sort of money on a microphone - huge fan that I am of Rode and their works - for my music recording work it would always be hugely compromised.

Most of my music work (ie 95%+) these days is location recording of live concerts with an audience present. I'm increasingly finding that more and more restrictions are being imposed on me - always in a friendly and polite way - about where mics and stand may be placed. In many cases simply having the mics in view is frowned upon. For all intents and purposes stands have to be invisible. On one occasion in the last year the last-minute demands on mic placement were so extreme that I had to simply pack-up and leave... no point wasting my time and energy attempting to produce a fatally-flawed recording.

So brilliant though the Rode would be I'd never be able to place it satisfactorily. I know it's only 'one' mic... but even a single stereo-pair is frowned on by some.... widely-spaced omnis is often the best deal that I can reach.
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Re: NT-SF1

Postby Hugh Robjohns » Tue Nov 27, 2018 12:39 pm

Mike Stranks wrote:I'm increasingly finding that more and more restrictions are being imposed on me - always in a friendly and polite way - about where mics and stand may be placed. In many cases simply having the mics in view is frowned upon. For all intents and purposes stands have to be invisible.

Yes. It's a hugely frustrating situation, often down to total misunderstandings of H&S requirements from people more interested in protecting their backs than understanding the law, or even applying common sense!

On one occasion in the last year the last-minute demands on mic placement were so extreme that I had to simply pack-up and leave... no point wasting my time and energy attempting to produce a fatally-flawed recording.

Yes, I've had that too. Told I had to set the mics up at the back of the church, so after patiently explaining the nonsense of that request and getting nowhere I packed up and came home.

On a slightly more amusing occasion I was told that "as it was such lovely weather they were going to do the concert outside instead". I did have a stab at that with a pair of spaced MKH20s omnis (being the mics with the lowest susceptibility to wind noise that I had with me), purely as an experiment and not expecting it to work...

...and lo, in the few sections where the inevitably horrendous wind noise wasn't obliterating the choir, the adjacent main road traffic noise was... And when I sent them the file out of courtesy they complained about the quality of my recording! :headbang: :x

The only way to overcome the mic-stand phobics is to fly the mics on catenary wires, like what the pros mostly do... but the cost of the appropriate hardware and the H&S requirements involved in that is massively worse, let alone the far greater rig/derig times. And that's assuming the building has appropriate and accessible mounting points anyway... which few do!

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Re: NT-SF1

Postby Wonks » Tue Nov 27, 2018 12:52 pm

silent drone mic stands?
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Re: NT-SF1

Postby ef37a » Tue Nov 27, 2018 12:53 pm

Mike, add a few large artificial floral displays to your kit inventory!

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Re: NT-SF1

Postby blinddrew » Tue Nov 27, 2018 1:23 pm

Wonks wrote:silent drone mic stands?
How quiet do drones get nowadays? And how much wind shielding would you need to protect from their own wind noise?
Asking from a purely hypothetical stance of course.

[EDIT - floral stands sounds a lot more practical!]
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Re: NT-SF1

Postby Sam Spoons » Tue Nov 27, 2018 3:38 pm

Hmmmmmm........ I wonder if the concept of "Dirigible mic stands" has legs (we'll probably not legs but you know what I mean) :thumbup:
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