My tinnitus has got worse this past year and I am finding that I can only hear the separation in my mixes on headphones. Even with my KH120as in a treated room I am getting low to mid mud, so need to think carefully about top quality headphone referencing.
I currently use my Audeze LCD-X but feel the Stax with a dedicated amp will be even better. Basically, I am trying to improve my reference monitoring and trying to create an environment that doesn't tire my ears so much.
Any recommendations as to which model of cans plus amp?
You are here
Stax headphone recommendations...
17 posts
• Page 1 of 1
-
Zukan - Moderator
- Posts: 8128
- Joined: Fri Sep 12, 2003 12:00 am
Re: Stax headphone recommendations...
Have you spoken to 0VU about it?
He's got some 'floating around' that might be worth having a go at, perhaps.
He's got some 'floating around' that might be worth having a go at, perhaps.
-
Aural Reject - Frequent Poster
- Posts: 920
- Joined: Fri May 02, 2003 12:00 am
- Location: Lancashire born, living in Yorkshire :s
Re: Stax headphone recommendations...
Just be careful not to monitor too loudly for too long, easy to do on headphones because you’re not feeling the bass frequencies through your body.
- MOF
- Regular
- Posts: 492
- Joined: Thu Mar 06, 2003 1:00 am
- Location: United Kingdom
Re: Stax headphone recommendations...
It's OK in this case. Eddie/Zukan has to monitor at quiet volumes because of his tinnitus. Anything too loud makes it even worse.
-
Wonks - Jedi Poster
- Posts: 10130
- Joined: Thu May 29, 2003 12:00 am
- Location: Reading, UK
Correcting mistakes on the internet since 1853
Re: Stax headphone recommendations...
I find that headphones are good for eq decisions but speakers for vocal levels in particular and panning. I don’t have a properly treated room though. I’ve done my best but everything still sounds ‘upper middle’ harsh.
- MOF
- Regular
- Posts: 492
- Joined: Thu Mar 06, 2003 1:00 am
- Location: United Kingdom
Re: Stax headphone recommendations...
I am sure that Zukan is aware if how important it is to:
1) Take advice from a qualified audiologist
2) Control levels to hopefully prevent making things worse
When I made a programme about Tinnitus a while back, it became evident that musicians were particularly venerable to Tinnitus associated with high levels of sound. We tend to think pop concerts here, but it also includes classical musicians.
My understanding is that once it's there, it can't at present be cured. But there are ways of overcoming the symptoms. Many of my television camera colleagues suffer from this condition, possibly brought about by very high levels on sound in television studios; it is said that headphones were turned up, to overcome the already high levels on programmes such as TOTP.
So please - do be careful out there!
1) Take advice from a qualified audiologist
2) Control levels to hopefully prevent making things worse
When I made a programme about Tinnitus a while back, it became evident that musicians were particularly venerable to Tinnitus associated with high levels of sound. We tend to think pop concerts here, but it also includes classical musicians.
My understanding is that once it's there, it can't at present be cured. But there are ways of overcoming the symptoms. Many of my television camera colleagues suffer from this condition, possibly brought about by very high levels on sound in television studios; it is said that headphones were turned up, to overcome the already high levels on programmes such as TOTP.
So please - do be careful out there!
- Brian M Rose
- Regular
- Posts: 180
- Joined: Mon Sep 05, 2011 12:00 am
Re: Stax headphone recommendations...
MOF wrote:I find that headphones are good for eq decisions but speakers for vocal levels in particular and panning. I don’t have a properly treated room though. I’ve done my best but everything still sounds ‘upper middle’ harsh.
Lots of musicians are making perfectly acceptable mixes using headphones for most of their decisions, including vocal levels and panning. The trick with the latter is to avoid hard left/right pan positions that will definitely sound odd under headphones, and can even make some people feel nauseous.
Remember - LOADS of listeners nowadays will be primarily listening via earbuds/phones and the like, so your mixes have to work well with both headphones and loudspeakers to reach the widest audience.
Primarily it's about getting some headphones with a well balanced frequency response (or using utilities like Sonarworks Reference to modify particular headphones so they give a more balanced response).
However, if you''re finding it difficult to balance vocals (and low bass for that matter) under headphones, listening to a mono mix on a grot box is a great way to get a second opinion, as anything that isn't at a suitable level will tend to stick out like a sore thumb under these conditions.
Personally I love mixing under headphones with the occasional check through loudspeakers in a treated room, and wrote a feature on it for SOS some years ago:
https://www.soundonsound.com/techniques ... headphones
Martin
-
Martin Walker - Moderator
- Posts: 14585
- Joined: Wed Jan 13, 2010 9:44 am
- Location: Cornwall, UK
Re: Stax headphone recommendations...
Aural Reject wrote:Have you spoken to 0VU about it?
He's got some 'floating around' that might be worth having a go at, perhaps.
Yeah. I asked him for a rec and he emailed me 4 pages of tech specs. This is why I never give coffee to that man.
-
Zukan - Moderator
- Posts: 8128
- Joined: Fri Sep 12, 2003 12:00 am
Re: Stax headphone recommendations...
Martin Walker wrote:MOF wrote:I find that headphones are good for eq decisions but speakers for vocal levels in particular and panning. I don’t have a properly treated room though. I’ve done my best but everything still sounds ‘upper middle’ harsh.
Lots of musicians are making perfectly acceptable mixes using headphones for most of their decisions, including vocal levels and panning. The trick with the latter is to avoid hard left/right pan positions that will definitely sound odd under headphones, and can even make some people feel nauseous.
Remember - LOADS of listeners nowadays will be primarily listening via earbuds/phones and the like, so your mixes have to work well with both headphones and loudspeakers to reach the widest audience.
Primarily it's about getting some headphones with a well balanced frequency response (or using utilities like Sonarworks Reference to modify particular headphones so they give a more balanced response).
However, if you''re finding it difficult to balance vocals (and low bass for that matter) under headphones, listening to a mono mix on a grot box is a great way to get a second opinion, as anything that isn't at a suitable level will tend to stick out like a sore thumb under these conditions.
Personally I love mixing under headphones with the occasional check through loudspeakers in a treated room, and wrote a feature on it for SOS some years ago:
https://www.soundonsound.com/techniques ... headphones
Martin
Yep, that wonderful article has become tenet.
-
Zukan - Moderator
- Posts: 8128
- Joined: Fri Sep 12, 2003 12:00 am
Re: Stax headphone recommendations...
Brian M Rose wrote:I am sure that Zukan is aware if how important it is to:
1) Take advice from a qualified audiologist
2) Control levels to hopefully prevent making things worse
When I made a programme about Tinnitus a while back, it became evident that musicians were particularly venerable to Tinnitus associated with high levels of sound. We tend to think pop concerts here, but it also includes classical musicians.
My understanding is that once it's there, it can't at present be cured. But there are ways of overcoming the symptoms. Many of my television camera colleagues suffer from this condition, possibly brought about by very high levels on sound in television studios; it is said that headphones were turned up, to overcome the already high levels on programmes such as TOTP.
So please - do be careful out there!
Thanks Brian. Yes, I am fully versed on the condition and have found that rest is the only thing that affords me a modicum of comfort.
-
Zukan - Moderator
- Posts: 8128
- Joined: Fri Sep 12, 2003 12:00 am
Re: Stax headphone recommendations...
Someone has suggested the Subpac route but I have no experience of this tech. Anyone attacked it?
-
Zukan - Moderator
- Posts: 8128
- Joined: Fri Sep 12, 2003 12:00 am
Re: Stax headphone recommendations...
Hey guys, I'm back!
We've measured some Stax cans and they have extremely low THD. Due to the super light moving mass they dissipate energy really fast, hence impulse response is very clean.
The main problem with them is bass. Even with large 'stat diaphragms they run out of excursion really fast. Anything below 007, will have limited stator-to-stator distance and if you push them too much the diaphragm can go too close to the stators and arcing might occur. Above 007 bass is no problem, but you need a rather beefy amp to drive them properly.
As for the sound, they're the closest thing to hooking up a DAC to your brain. It might actually make your process harder as you can end up obsessing over stuff generally inaudible to most normal people.
We've measured some Stax cans and they have extremely low THD. Due to the super light moving mass they dissipate energy really fast, hence impulse response is very clean.
The main problem with them is bass. Even with large 'stat diaphragms they run out of excursion really fast. Anything below 007, will have limited stator-to-stator distance and if you push them too much the diaphragm can go too close to the stators and arcing might occur. Above 007 bass is no problem, but you need a rather beefy amp to drive them properly.
As for the sound, they're the closest thing to hooking up a DAC to your brain. It might actually make your process harder as you can end up obsessing over stuff generally inaudible to most normal people.
-
Hrodulf - Regular
- Posts: 90
- Joined: Wed Nov 26, 2014 1:00 am
- Location: Latvia
Re: Stax headphone recommendations...
Zukan wrote:Someone has suggested the Subpac route but I have no experience of this tech. Anyone attacked it?
I found it interesting and useful, though not necessarily in the way intended...
The main benefit to me was that, presumably because I could feel the low end, I didn't feel the urge to turn the headphones up so high as normal. In other words, I could listen at lower levels than normal.
Auditioning it with different already-mastered material, though, I found that I wanted the sub at different levels (though always relatively low levels) for different tracks and genres... And that makes me question its use as part of a critical-listening system — you shouldn't need to change the sub level for different material! So I think I'd always find myself wondering if my monitoring was screwing with my perception. YMMV.
I preferred the chair-mounted version to the body-worn one.
-
Mixedup - Jedi Poster
- Posts: 4385
- Joined: Wed Sep 03, 2003 12:00 am
- Location: Cambridgeshire, UK
Re: Stax headphone recommendations...
Thanks Mixedup.
-
Zukan - Moderator
- Posts: 8128
- Joined: Fri Sep 12, 2003 12:00 am
Re: Stax headphone recommendations...
I prefer headphones too but I check vocal levels, in particular, with speakers. Bass on headphones is not an issue for me.Personally I love mixing under headphones with the occasional check through loudspeakers in a treated room
My current headphones 'Sennheiser HD 540 reference' have got a bit of distortion on one side with really low bass notes and I can't get a replacement driver. They seem to be the most neutral cans around, I've tried the HD650 and they seem hyped in the lower mids to me. The HD700/800 are supposed to have a flatter response but are a bit too pricey for me and tend not to get stocked because of their price here in Nottingham.
- MOF
- Regular
- Posts: 492
- Joined: Thu Mar 06, 2003 1:00 am
- Location: United Kingdom
Re: Stax headphone recommendations...
I have the subpac sitting on a desk near-by. The experience surely feels exciting, but it reminds me of Beethoven putting a horn in his mouth to "listen" when he went deaf. With that said - I can see people learning to actually mix on them.
-
Hrodulf - Regular
- Posts: 90
- Joined: Wed Nov 26, 2014 1:00 am
- Location: Latvia
Re: Stax headphone recommendations...
Sorry to hear about your tinnitus Eddie. I have tinnitus on top of hearing loss, but I won't give you any advice on that because you know it all already.
Can't give you an recommendations, I only have cheap and cheerful headphones which combined with my Cochlear Implant give me decent enough sound. Only so far you can go with an implant...
Just wanted to encourage you, so yeah!
Can't give you an recommendations, I only have cheap and cheerful headphones which combined with my Cochlear Implant give me decent enough sound. Only so far you can go with an implant...
Just wanted to encourage you, so yeah!
-
garrettendi - Frequent Poster
- Posts: 1891
- Joined: Sat Dec 10, 2005 1:00 am
"I mean, Led Zeppelin didn't write tunes that everyone liked. They left that to the Bee Gees" - Wayne Campbell (Wayne's World)
Who is online
Users browsing this forum: wireman