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Neumann TLM102 or TLM103?

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Re: Neumann TLM102 or TLM103?

Postby Wonks » Fri Jan 18, 2019 4:56 pm

The 2020 sounded really thin and nasty on Dave B's AE22s in a treated room, but the 2020 file sounded much better on my Genelecs in an untreated room.
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Re: Neumann TLM102 or TLM103?

Postby CS70 » Fri Jan 18, 2019 8:00 pm

Wonks wrote:The 2020 sounded really thin and nasty on Dave B's AE22s in a treated room, but the 2020 file sounded much better on my Genelecs in an untreated room.

Totally agree that there's a risk of harshness, especially with loud male vocals. I never experienced it as thin and nasty tough - given that the recording is properly set up. Could the test depend more on the room where the source was recorded, than the one where the result was auditioned?
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Re: Neumann TLM102 or TLM103?

Postby Wonks » Fri Jan 18, 2019 8:03 pm

All the other mics sounded fine, so I doubt it. But IIRC it had come from Dave's guitar speaker isolation cab, though he doesn't own any particularly loud amps or had actually used it much.
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Re: Neumann TLM102 or TLM103?

Postby CS70 » Fri Jan 18, 2019 8:08 pm

Wonks wrote:All the other mics sounded fine, so I doubt it. But IIRC it had come from Dave's guitar speaker isolation cab, though he doesn't own any particularly loud amps or had actually used it much.

I recorded a distorted guitar only once with it, but it was a 4x12 and was much definitely not isolated!

Sounded pretty good after finding the right cone and position. I guess that the little bump which sometimes may make it a trifle harsh with near vocals (which is solved by having the singer back up a little) could hit the same way if it's pointed towards the center of a bright cone at good volume..
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Re: Neumann TLM102 or TLM103?

Postby shxdohmusic » Fri Jan 18, 2019 11:41 pm

thanks for all the replies :clap: :clap: , its my first time posting on SOS. Usually I refer my questions to other forums full of people who just hate on every-bodies decisions. Good to see a community of sound heads actually having a nice conversation. :lol: . I think I'll come here from now on.. no more waiting around either as it would appear.

Now for the mics.. I've often seen the sm7bs mentioned. Infact, near enough every thread asking about rap vocals on the internet you can bank on someones having already suggested them somewhere. I'm thinking It may be worth getting one and rigging it up just for the hell of it now... I've heard vocals from them on many videos too and always just wrote them off because of how they looked (ignorant, I know).. I just assumed they were more a microphone suited to the Radio Broacaster type of setting as apposed to a Studio set up. One thing I do know is its that they're widely used by many vocalists now and the reviews are all good. plus, visually it looks mad professional on a desk boom :smirk:. Not sickeningly expensive either.. I may even use it to start doing vlog reviews on all the equipment I'm set to buy this year lol.

a massive thank you goes to the kind gentleman on the first comment who pointed out I can get a TLM102 and the Sm7B for the same price as the TLM103... that alone may make my decision a lot easier now :thumbup: .Not to forget that the TLM102 comes with the EA4 Shock-mount. I believe thats the newer model. If I buy the TLM102 studio kit, I could pick up a second hand 103 or 107 somewhere down the line if I still felt the urge to try more TLMS out and it would fit on the EA4 no problem. One thing that put me off the TLM103 was the fact it came with the old shockmount :protest: .. The EA4 looks so much cooler and clearly designed to work better with proximity recording. If I got the 103, It was gonna cost me £100 extra on top of £800 in the long run because I would HAVE to upgrade the shockmount as well :lol: . I couldn't find the 103 being sold with the EA4 anywhere... so that kinda annoyed me. I later found out the TLM103 was the older model and it then made sense..

in the end after endless hours of research and review videos. I really don't think there is £300 of a sound difference in QUALITY from what I've heard. Infact, sonically I do prefer the bassy low end of the 102 like most people I reckon. Take these clips for example...

TLM102
https://soundcloud.com/sonic-sense-pro-audio/neumann-tlm102
sounds nice and warm with a nice tone in the low/mid area''

TLM103
https://soundcloud.com/sonic-sense-pro-audio/neumann-tlm103
sounds very loose on the high end (harsh as many describe when up loud).

As for the modification of the TLM102 (removal of inbuilt pop filter). I seen a video of someone removing it but nobody really comparing the sound. that was my only real worry about preceding with doing that. Unscrewing the case and removing the foam is kids work... the real question is, does it sound better? :( . Maybe I'll buy it and do the review myself lol. I'd imagine it would make recordings clearer. surely.

And finally, to the people suggesting other mics. I'm fully aware there may be better mics out there for the price but the whole Nuemann thing has been annoying me for long time. I now want to try them out as a manufacturer to get future gear from. I've been looking up reviews on them for years and could never really afford one until now. I'm now looking to jump in, but not too deep.. I was set on the 103 at first until I seen reviews of everybody selling them for 102's. I even seen people refer to the 103 as neumanns worst microphone on more than one occasion. I never seen any of that with the TLM102.. all reviews seem to be great for the 102 with people describing it as Warm, Tight, Tonal and crispy on the highs maintaining the the high end Nuemann ''sheen'' as they call it.... it also seems to work on a range of voices/genres for a number of people..

The way I see it now is that If the TLM102 is specifically designed by nuemann to be the introduction mic then maybe it is exactly that. Seems like the 103 is a more expensive risk, especially now that I've taken time to weigh up the pros and cons and speak to you great people. It would appear the 102 is more likley to make me appreciate Neumann as a company a lot more than the 103 might...

Im also really intrigued to see how big the sound really is from this microscopic microphone, at first I wrote this mic off due to its size... now its got me really wanting to see what all the fuss is about.

Wish me luck!
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Re: Neumann TLM102 or TLM103?

Postby Watchmaker » Sat Jan 19, 2019 2:35 am

SOS has the best forum on the web...heck, they even let me hang around!

G'luck with the 102, you can't really go wrong with it.
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Re: Neumann TLM102 or TLM103?

Postby Jack Ruston » Sat Jan 19, 2019 7:26 am

Re the SM7...there are a couple of advantages - it's less toppy, which makes it less sibilant. When you then add a load of top end to the mix, it sits very well. And here's a HUGE thing - people can hold it in their hand if needs be. It's not the easiest mic to hold, but you can do it. And that can make the difference between a performance being unusably poor, and awesome. This is especially true with artists who always hold their mic when performing, and so physically move a lot more than they'd be able to do in front of a stand.

Re the Neumann. See how much you can pick up a used 87 for. It won't be 850 or whatever insane amount they're trying to get for a 103, but it might be close to 1k. That might be a more solid investment. You could always get that back. It's also the Neumann that has reputation value in that price range.

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Re: Neumann TLM102 or TLM103?

Postby CS70 » Sat Jan 19, 2019 11:22 am

Best of luck!

Also don’t get too hung up in the technical side. I never saw a mic making great music on its own :)
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Re: Neumann TLM102 or TLM103?

Postby Martin Walker » Sat Jan 19, 2019 12:25 pm

shxdohmusic wrote:thanks for all the replies :clap: :clap: , its my first time posting on SOS. Usually I refer my questions to other forums full of people who just hate on every-bodies decisions. Good to see a community of sound heads actually having a nice conversation. :lol: . I think I'll come here from now on.. no more waiting around either as it would appear.

Hi shxdohmusic, and welcome to the SOS Forums! 8-)

I'm so pleased that you noticed our friendliness and decided to stay. It is indeed a great place to join in as well as find out other people's opinions, and the range of expertise ranges from absolute beginners to long-time industry professionals with decades of knowledge and experience.

Hope you enjoy your stay as much as the rest of us seem to! ;)


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Re: Neumann TLM102 or TLM103?

Postby James Perrett » Sat Jan 19, 2019 3:22 pm

Jack Ruston wrote:but it might be close to 1k.
J

I was a bit surprised to see this as I paid £800 for mine over 20 years ago and thought I was getting a reasonable deal. I'd assumed that used ones went for double that now but I notice a few going for around £1200-1300 on Ebay so they're not totally out of the question.
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Re: Neumann TLM102 or TLM103?

Postby John Willett » Sat Jan 19, 2019 4:17 pm

If you are considering the TLM 102 and 103 you should really also have the Gefell M930 on the list.

Gefell is the original Neumann, made in the same factory that Neumann set up during WWII and is still owned by Neumann's orighinal company set up in 1928.

Neumann Berlin is Neumann's post-war company, now owned by Sennheiser, and the mics are now made in the Sennheiser complex in Hannover.

I'm not goiing to comment on the various merits of each as that is a personal choice - just saying as the M 930 is in the same ball-park price range and of at least equal build quality.
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Re: Neumann TLM102 or TLM103?

Postby Humble Bee » Sat Jan 19, 2019 4:19 pm

You beat me to it John.
Gefell +1 :thumbup:
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Re: Neumann TLM102 or TLM103?

Postby CS70 » Sat Jan 19, 2019 5:02 pm

shxdohmusic wrote:thanks for all the replies :clap: :clap: , its my first time posting on SOS. Usually I refer my questions to other forums full of people who just hate on every-bodies decisions. Good to see a community of sound heads actually having a nice conversation.

This forum is an island of sanity in the madness of the Internet :)
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Re: Neumann TLM102 or TLM103?

Postby Mike Stranks » Sat Jan 19, 2019 5:06 pm

John Willett wrote:If you are considering the TLM 102 and 103 you should really also have the Gefell M930 on the list.

Gefell is the original Neumann, made in the same factory that Neumann set up during WWII and is still owned by Neumann's orighinal company set up in 1928.

Neumann Berlin is Neumann's post-war company, now owned by Sennheiser, and the mics are now made in the Sennheiser complex in Hannover.

I'm not goiing to comment on the various merits of each as that is a personal choice - just saying as the M 930 is in the same ball-park price range and of at least equal build quality.

Oo-er!

Just clinked on John's 'SoundLink' link and got this message:

"Your connection is not secure

The owner of sound-link.co.uk has configured their web site improperly. To protect your information from being stolen, Firefox has not connected to this web site.

Learn more…

Report errors like this to help Mozilla identify and block malicious sites"


Over to you Mr W....
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Re: Neumann TLM102 or TLM103?

Postby Kwackman » Sat Jan 19, 2019 5:24 pm

Mike Stranks wrote:Just clinked on John's SoundLink' link and got this message:

[i]"Your connection is not secure
The owner of sound-link.co.uk has configured their web site improperly. To protect your information from being stolen

Yes, Safari gives a similar warning too.
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