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AES3 to AES59 to OSX DAW and Back

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AES3 to AES59 to OSX DAW and Back

Postby trunkdog » Sun Jul 08, 2018 6:25 pm

I need help in the interfacing of my Sony DMX-R100 console to DAW.
At this point I perfer using MAC OSX and PreSonus StudioOne.
The console is equpped with (3) AES (DMBK-R103) expansion cards but this could be TDIF or MADI. I would prefer to use the AES for cost effectiveness.

It seems I am the only cowboy looking for a "Bidirectional AES59 Interface for OSX" device.
No shortage of audio interfaces out there with AD/DA convertors…

What, if anything, prevents the A&H ICE-16D from performing this function? I realize the spec says analog but isn't AES59, well, AES59? (Manufacture implementation exceptions noted)

(…damn I hate HTML5, iOS, etc incompatability as I try to type here; hence I can not expect to express cogent thought through the ether. Give me 300 baud and a BBS; but I digress)

Perhaps I need (2) of these:

https://pro.focusrite.com/category/audi ... ednet-d16r

But then I can't fathom the price point. I guess I'd be paying for the "novelty" of AOIP.

Thanks for listening.

EDIT: http://tascam.com/content/downloads/pro ... Pinout.pdf

So its the Analog pinout that prevents its use in my scenario.
Or does "Analog 5-8" simply become "Digital Out 1-4"?
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Re: AES3 to AES59 to OSX DAW and Back

Postby Hugh Robjohns » Sun Jul 08, 2018 7:06 pm

trunkdog wrote:It seems I am the only cowboy looking for a "Bidirectional AES59 Interface for OSX" device.

I'm not surprised...

AES59 is just four AES3 connections (in each direction) wired to a 25-pin D-sub connector

If you can use internal PCIe cards in your mac, then the RME HSDPe AES cards would do a nice job indeed with 16 channels in and out.

http://www.rme-audio.de/en/products/hdspe_aes.php

If you need an external interface AND a lot of channels, I'd go the MADI route from the console into an RME MADiface USB or similar.

http://www.rme-audio.de/en/products/madiface_usb.php

Alternatively, get an AES3 to ADAT Lightpipe converter like the RME ADi-4DD and then any interface that supports the ADAT Interface, which is most of the larger (in channel-count) ones.

http://www.rme-audio.de/en/products/adi_4_dd.php


What, if anything, prevents the A&H ICE-16D from performing this function? I realize the spec says analog but isn't AES59, well, AES59? (Manufacture implementation exceptions noted)

AES59 is a standardised set of wiring configurations for the 25-pin Dsub connector. It can carry either eight channels of balanced analogue in a single direction, or four channels of AES3 in both directions. It doesn't convert analogue to digital (or vice versa), it is just a physical connection format.

Perhaps I need (2) of these: < rednet-d16r >

Yes, you could certainly go down the Dante route, if you want, but it's really just an alternative to MADI in this instance... and if you want minimal latency you'll need to add a hardware Dante card in the computer, rather than relying on the free virtual software Dante decoder.

So you'll need to price up the hardware options for both the Dante and MADI approaches and see which is the most cost effective -- taking into account any future expansion you might have in the back of your mind...

So its the Analog pinout that prevents its use in my scenario.
Or does "Analog 5-8" simply become "Digital Out 1-4"?

The 25-pin Dsub is wired to carry eight balanced connections. That's it. End of story...

Those eight balanced connections can either be used to carry eight balanced analogue audio signals in one direction (eg, eight balanced analogue outputs or eight balanced analogue inputs -- for an analogue device), or the same plug (but with different types of cables and connectors on the end) could be used to convey four AES3 stereo outputs and four AES3 stereo inputs for a digital device.

H
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Re: AES3 to AES59 to OSX DAW and Back

Postby trunkdog » Sun Jul 08, 2018 7:21 pm

Thanks for the response Hugh. I'll continue the research specifically looking at the links you provided. I realize MADI would be my best approach is just that sourcing that card for the DMX is pretty scarce. I do see a posting for three TDIF expansion cards. I was just hoping to be able to use the 3 AES cards that are in the DMX now.
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Re: AES3 to AES59 to OSX DAW and Back

Postby Hugh Robjohns » Sun Jul 08, 2018 7:46 pm

If memory serves each card has eight channels in and out, so you need a 24 channel conversion of one form or another. Three RME ADI4DD boxes to convert AES to ADAT optical, and the RME Digiface USB box for ADT to USB into the computervwould do it neatly and reliably...

(and the ADI4DD has an AES59 socket on the back!)

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Re: AES3 to AES59 to OSX DAW and Back

Postby trunkdog » Sun Jul 08, 2018 8:13 pm

Thanks again Hugh. I'm now sourcing the components…used! Would you suggest breakout AES snakes or something like the RME BOB-32?

http://www.networksound.com/index.php/p ... /xlr32db25
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Re: AES3 to AES59 to OSX DAW and Back

Postby Hugh Robjohns » Sun Jul 08, 2018 8:17 pm

There's no point putting extra connections in the signal path unless you need the ability to patch AES3 signals independently. I'd use ordinary AES3 to AES59 dSub cables to go between the desk and the ADI4s, and then light pipes from there to the digiface, and USB into the 'pooter.

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Re: AES3 to AES59 to OSX DAW and Back

Postby trunkdog » Sun Jul 08, 2018 8:30 pm

Understood. The routing flexibility of the DMX pretty much eliminates patching.
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Re: AES3 to AES59 to OSX DAW and Back

Postby Hugh Robjohns » Sun Jul 08, 2018 9:04 pm

Yes, it's a lovely console. One of my favourite digital desks and still popular for live-to-stereo and post-mixing classical work.

https://www.soundonsound.com/reviews/sony-dmx-r100-v2
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Re: AES3 to AES59 to OSX DAW and Back

Postby trunkdog » Sun Jul 08, 2018 9:33 pm

And trust me, I read your review prior to purchasing!
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Re: AES3 to AES59 to OSX DAW and Back

Postby trunkdog » Sun Jul 22, 2018 3:37 am

Does this unit actially provide 56 AES3 I/O with MADI support?

Euphonix FC726
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Re: AES3 to AES59 to OSX DAW and Back

Postby Hugh Robjohns » Sun Jul 22, 2018 10:55 am

It converts a variety of digital input formats to (56 channel) MADI, and MADI to a variety of digital formats, all with selectable sample rate conversion. It was a very powerful converter in its day... There's still plenty of stuff about it on the web, including reviews, applications, and manuals.

However, the 25-pin D-sub connectors that carry the AES3 inputs and outputs are not wired to the AES59 standard. Euphonix invented their own unique wiring arrangement, putting the eight AES3 pairs on entirely different pins, rendering the connector not directly compatible with either AES59 or the Yamaha arrangement.

This means you will need to have custom conversion or break-out cables made up. Not difficult... but it will add to the expense.

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Re: AES3 to AES59 to OSX DAW and Back

Postby trunkdog » Sun Jul 22, 2018 4:26 pm

Thanks Hugh, that's what I gathered from the manual; just wanted your expertise and confirmation on that. Apparently I have a viable ($$$) solution. Let me break out the soldering iron!
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Re: AES3 to AES59 to OSX DAW and Back

Postby trunkdog » Sat Feb 23, 2019 11:11 pm

So I've nixed this plan and intend to go all digital with full recall.

https://www.soundonsound.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=65144&p=591035#p591035

That leaves me with. Sony DMX-R100 for sale.
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