SOUND ON SOUND

[Kotomi]

Hey everyone, newcomer here.

I'm going to be moving away and completely replacing my entire recording setup as it's very outdated (have been using bandmate's setup). I'm sorted with the hardware but am really struggling to choose between getting the latest versions of either Pro Tools or Logic Pro X, as I'm most familiar with those two DAWs in general (old versions, mind you), but can't decide which one will be better for me.

I'm writing and recording/producing my own stuff and will use MIDI heavily, so a good range of samples and plugins and synth manipulation is a big thing for me. An old version of Pro Tools and Logic Pro 9 are the DAWs available to me at the moment and what I've been using, and I tend to find that I prefer the general audio quality of Pro Tools but find that the synths etc aren't always as easily customisable in things like Xpand, etc to the level that Logic can provide. Logic seems to allow you to get into every crevice of a sound and manipulate it more easily, but can fall short in other areas, and have personally found the sound quality to be inferior (perhaps just due to outdated version?). I've been researching into the latest versions of each DAW and the more I read, the more undecided I get, as there are so many opinions floating about. I'm not sure which one has the best array of samples/presets/etc and ease of manipulation, which does factor into my choice. I'm not exactly going to be making hardcore EDM, but it will feature presets quite heavily. Naturally I would like to spend less money, and as I've heard that Pro Tools isn't the best nowadays, going for Logic Pro X might be a smart move, but if Pro Tools is genuinely the better choice for other reasons, I don't mind investing if I'm sure it'll be beneficial. I have no preference between Mac or Windows so no issue there.

I appreciate that I don't have the most knowledge here and am probably a bit naive when it comes to this stuff, so I'll appreciate any helpful opinions and advice. If I haven't provided enough info about anything, just ask!

[desmond]

I'm writing and recording/producing my own stuff and will use MIDI heavily, so a good range of samples and plugins and synth manipulation is a big thing for me.

Then Logic, for sure. It comes with the best content of all the DAWs.

have personally found the sound quality to be inferior (perhaps just due to outdated version?).

There is no general problem with "sound quality" in Logic. The pan laws in Logic are different to Pro Tools, that's about it.
As for FX, some FX in Logic Pro X are improved over earlier versions - for example, the EQ's oversample by default.

*Personally*, I'd buy Pro Tools if:
- I regularly needed to send my sessions to other PT users to work on
- I needed to open my sessions in a studio than only had PT
- I knew PT inside out and preferred working on that platform
- My third-party plugins all came in AAX versions

Otherwise, Logic is a better working environment for MIDI composers, has a better range of instruments, effects, presets and audio content, and is far cheaper.

Note - a 1 year subscription for Pro Tools costs more than Logic Pro X costs. Or you can pay over double what Logic costs for a "perpetual" licence, which includes 1 year of updates. After that, your perpetual licence won't let you get any more updates - unless you pay a renewal fee, which I couldn't find out how much it costs without actually buying it.

[Darren Lynch]

Ha! Desmond got in first - here's my 2p worth

Welcome to the forum,

I think a lot of forum regulars will be along to respectfully convince you that:

Logic and PT both offer exceptional sound quality. That's a non-issue :thumbup:

What you describe as Logic 'falling short' in certain areas is really a difference in workflow which appeals or does not appeal. :thumbup:

PT used to have reputation for a less developed midi side. It's plenty good now. :thumbup:

Logic comes with a frankly monster arsenal of synths, instruments, effects and processors. It's great value for what you get. If you are making midi-heavy, synth based tracks, Logic is the one to beat.

Logic's Audio Unit (AU) plugin format means you can make use of AU freeware. There's not much free stuff around for PT.

The main reason for choosing Pro Tools would be to become an expert user in the DAW which continues to dominate in the professional recording world. If your ambitions are for your music rather than a career in recording other people, Logic offers the best value.

[ConcertinaChap]

The main reason for choosing Pro Tools would be to become an expert user in the DAW which continues to dominate in the professional recording world.

Is that still true? I think there's a fair number of professionals on this forum who use other DAWs.

CC

[Wonks]

It's normally just one of an selection of DAWs that people will use these days. Often used a lot in the recording and pre-production process, but then the files shipped out to other DAWs. It's one of those systems that people are expected to have, so they have it, but they also use other DAWs.

[G-Doubleyou]

Software doesn't have a sound, results are more dependent on recording hardware and the room.

Content-wise Logic has everything you need for a polished recording, adding other plugins is optional.

If you look at the origins of both apps, Logic started as a midi sequencer, PT with their required hardware was a recording system.

For me PT is more of a recording tool, Logic a composing tool.
Over the years both have added overlapping features that cover most situations.

:thumbup:

[Kotomi]

Thanks for the replies everyone :thumbup:

I did have a feeling that Logic might be the better choice for me, but needed confirmation as I'd ended up hearing so many different opinions of both DAWs, I didn't know what to think anymore! About the 'sound quality' issue, I do know it's pretty much down to hardware. All I was noticing was that my Logic tended to have a 'graininess' to the reverb tails and stuff like that, but I realise it's probably the Mac it's on underperforming as it's probably old enough for it. I definitely want to focus more on my own stuff and composing as opposed to recording others, so Logic looks like the better choice. And what a relief when it's much cheaper than Pro Tools!

Thanks again everyone. It's gonna be an expensive time what with new software, new Mac and new speakers (at least my interface is still good) but worth it.

[Sam Spoons]

Or if you really need to save money (and you're prepared for a learning curve changing to something new) you could try Reaper, free to try then £40/$60 to licence. It is generally acknowledged as an equal to all the other mainstream DAWs despite the tiny licence cost.

But, given the likely spend on this project the saving over Logic is relatively insignificant and the most 'intuitive' DAW is always the one you are using :thumbup:

[desmond]

Although Reaper doesn't come with instruments, synths, samplers, sounds and sample content and so on, so you'll need to already have a bunch of third-party plugins or external hardware to do the sounds, making it less suitable for composing out of the box, than something like Logic or Cubase etc...

[Sam Spoons]

It does have a few basic VSTis and there are many freebies out there. I was just offering a cheap alternative though if money was tight enough that £160 would make the difference.

[desmond]

Sure. I think it's an Internet rule that in any thread recommending DAWs, someone *has* to bring up Reaper, whatever the circumstances... ;)

[blinddrew]

It's my turn next week... ;)

[Sam Spoons]

:clap: :clap: :clap:

[ConcertinaChap]

What, in the barrel?

CC

[Wonks]

Can I mention Cubase then? :D

Well it still is the best DAW for MIDI.

Can I mention Cubase then? :D

Well it still is the best DAW for MIDI.

In that case can I mention Ableton Live? Which I use it as a standard DAW, not for DJing or dance tracks.

[Sam Spoons]

No, the rule only applies to Reaper....... :bouncy:

[CS70]

Thanks for the replies everyone :thumbup:

I did have a feeling that Logic might be the better choice for me, but needed confirmation as I'd ended up hearing so many different opinions of both DAWs, I didn't know what to think anymore!

That's because the DAW matters little. It's all down to your creativity with what you have really, so any DAW can be great or horrible, depending on who's manning it. Unless the program is really unstable.. most DAWs nowadays handle MIDI tracks well enough and synths of all kinds in VST format (or standalone) can be found by the dozen, so just go with your intuition and you'll be alright.

About the 'sound quality' issue, I do know it's pretty much down to hardware. All I was noticing was that my Logic tended to have a 'graininess' to the reverb tails and stuff like that, but I realise it's probably the Mac it's on underperforming as it's probably old enough for it. I definitely want to focus more on my own stuff and composing as opposed to recording others, so Logic looks like the better choice. And what a relief when it's much cheaper than Pro Tools!

It's even easier - there are *no* sound quality issues. Numbers are numbers, and while the processing engines can be slightly different, the math and algorithms involved are such that the end result is exactly the same up to a very (and inaudible) degree of precision. If your pc is slower, it may start stuttering but so long it can reproduce a sound, the sound will be the same in different DAWs (given you use the same effects, of course... there can be different quality among different vendor's reverb plugins, for example). Given the same platform and the same effects, changing the DAW will make no difference to the sound quality.

As Desmond says, different DAWs use different pan laws and in a stereo mix the consequent filtering may produce a slightly different timbre as it's heard in your room.... but it's nothing to do with sound quality, it's just with the default pan law selection (and you most often in a DAW A you can select the same law as DAW B). There is no magic (other than the whole things exist, of course, which is marvelous by itself).

[Darren Lynch]

Thanks for the replies everyone :thumbup:

I did have a feeling that Logic might be the better choice for me, but needed confirmation as I'd ended up hearing so many different opinions of both DAWs, I didn't know what to think anymore! About the 'sound quality' issue, I do know it's pretty much down to hardware. All I was noticing was that my Logic tended to have a 'graininess' to the reverb tails and stuff like that, but I realise it's probably the Mac it's on underperforming as it's probably old enough for it.

Woah, we need to back off with the "all DAWs sound the same" (which they kinda do) because the man says he can hear grainy reverb tails in Logic. Spot on! most of Logic's legacy reverbs are notorious for their very grainy reverb tails. I actually like them in a lo-fi sound designy kind of way. The latest version ships with Space Designer and Chromaverb, which improve the reverb options massively. But the sound of a reverb plugin (which vary hugely) is not the sound of the actual DAW (which hardly vary at all in terms of sound quality)

I think DAWs do sound different. When I used Logic, as soon as the tracks were transferred to Pro Tools or RADAR they sounded so much better. I am certain Ableton 10 sounds better than Ableton 6, which was my previous version.