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Windows 7's impending death

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Re: Windows 7's impending death

Postby OneWorld » Thu Mar 28, 2019 4:38 pm

Agharta wrote:I blame Apple indirectly for the malaise at Microsoft! :shock:
With the success of iOS devices and the failure of MS (and Intel) to compete on new fronts MS panicked.
Look at the initial release of Windows 8.0 and tell me that wasn't produced by a company that was confused and lost.
It was a mid life crisis of an operating system.
They did sober up and put the Hawaiian shirts away and got back on track for a while.
W8.1 was a solid O/S which I prefer to Win7 easily.
Then with W10 they lost the plot again and kept moving the goal posts which is not what you want with an O/S that is used by 100s of millions as a productivity tool.
I felt forced to use W10 when building a new desktop last year even though I had a W8.1 license because MS changed their long term support plans.
That meant if you were building a PC with new hardware only W10 gave you long term support even though W8.1 is supported until January 2023.
So W8.x is the new Vista and has been locked in the basement like a troubled child.
It's a shame as 8.1 is a good half way house between 7 and 10.

You are spot on there, even to the casual user, Win8 look like it had been produced at a tonka toy convention, it looked and felt like a pink Lada, with all the go faster stripes they could muster. I went straight from Win7 to WIn10. But it was clear from the start, Microsoft missed a trick, they sort of didn't see the tablet market coming. Yes there was the 'netbook' market which never really took hold, what was needed was a computer that the computer luddites could learn to love, so the result is the desktop market is still to a great extent Microsoft territory, with that phone/tablet market shared between Apple and Google. For Microsoft to try and shimmy in with a quasi phone/tablet OS was delusional.

I have adapted to WIn10 now that I have managed to jettison all the bling, penny muck and bric-a-brac it comes with, it really does feel slicker than Win7, that being said Win7 was XP come of age - true 64 bit etc but kept the understated desktop, instead of the Start Menu/Desktop so cluttered with useless trish trash it looked more like the back room of a charity shop
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Re: Windows 7's impending death

Postby CS70 » Thu Mar 28, 2019 6:17 pm

Watchmaker wrote:A question: If both malice and ignorance lead to undesirable outcomes, which is the greater curse? Personally I see them as largely indistinguishable, especially as stupidity is most often a (semi) voluntary condition.

Ahah good question! Well, no great wisdom here, but I consider stupidity more dangerous.

I mean, explicit malice requires a plan and careful, perfect execution, and on complex things the same effect as above tend to blow up plans and execution. The most evident fallacy on most conspiracy theories is that in order to exists they would require much bigger work and planning than the real thing. It's just as difficult to do planned evil as to do planned good. Stupidity is much simpler.. :-D
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Re: Windows 7's impending death

Postby blinddrew » Thu Mar 28, 2019 9:13 pm

^^^ This!
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Re: Windows 7's impending death

Postby DC-Choppah » Sat Mar 30, 2019 10:33 pm

My main Protools DAW, project studio machine is Windows 7. I just put the Windows 10 disk in and said 'go'. It says that my machine cannot be upgraded to Windows 10.

Oh man, does this mean it's time for a new studio box?
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Re: Windows 7's impending death

Postby Agharta » Sat Mar 30, 2019 10:58 pm

DC-Choppah wrote:My main Protools DAW, project studio machine is Windows 7. I just put the Windows 10 disk in and said 'go'. It says that my machine cannot be upgraded to Windows 10.
Oh man, does this mean it's time for a new studio box?
Depends whether it meant it can't be upgraded in situ directly from 7 to 10 or whether the hardware isn't supported.
If you are running W7 32 bit then not sure you can do a direct upgrade.
If you give the hardware specs then we can try and help.
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Re: Windows 7's impending death

Postby DC-Choppah » Sun Mar 31, 2019 1:31 am

Here is my studio box, running Windows 7 / 64 bit. I tried to do the upgrade to Windows 10 but it says the machine can't be upgraded.



SiSoftware Sandra

ID
Host Name : musicbox
Workgroup : WORKGROUP

Computer
Model : OEM System Product Name
Serial Number : System Ser**********
Chassis : Desktop
Mainboard : ASUS P5Q PRO TURBO
Serial Number : 1033734********
BIOS : AMI (OEM) 0701 10/08/2012
Total Memory : 4GB DIMM DDR2 DDR3

Processors
Processor : Intel(R) Core(TM)2 Quad CPU Q8400 @ 2.66GHz (4C 2.67GHz, 2x 2MB L2)
Socket/Slot : FC LGA (Socket T)

Chipset
Memory Controller : ASUS P45/P43/G45/G43 DRAM Controller 4x 333MHz (1.33GHz), 2x 2GB DIMM DDR2 DDR3 800MHz 128-bit

Memory Module(s)
Memory Module : G.Skill F2-8500CL5-2GBPK 2GB DIMM DDR2 PC2-8500U DDR2-1066 (5-5-5-15 3-24-6-3)
Memory Module : G.Skill F2-8500CL5-2GBPK 2GB DIMM DDR2 PC2-8500U DDR2-1066 (5-5-5-15 3-24-6-3)

Video System
Monitor/Panel : FNI MAGNAVOX
(1600x1200)
Video Adapter : ATI Radeon HD 4600 Series (320 SM4.1 750MHz, 1GB DDR3 1.6GHz 128-bit, PCIe 2.00 x16)

Graphics Processor
OpenCL GP Processor : ATI Radeon HD 4600 Series (320SP 8C 750MHz, 512MB DDR3 1.6GHz 128-bit)

Storage Devices
WDC WD5000AADS-00S9B0 (500.1GB, SATA300, 3.5", 32MB Cache) : 466GB (M:)
WDC WD5000AZLX-00K4KA0 (500.1GB, SATA600, 3.5", 7200rpm, 32MB Cache) : 466GB (O:)
WDC WD5000AADS-00S9B0 (500.1GB, SATA300, 3.5", 32MB Cache) : 466GB (C:)
Optiarc DVD RW AD-7240S (SATA150, DVD+-RW, CD-RW, 2MB Cache) : N/A (D:)

Logical Storage Devices
music (M:) : 466GB (NTFS) @ WDC WD5000AADS-00S9B0 (500.1GB, SATA300, 3.5", 32MB Cache)
Music2 (O:) : 466GB (NTFS) @ WDC WD5000AZLX-00K4KA0 (500.1GB, SATA600, 3.5", 7200rpm, 32MB Cache)
Hard Disk (C:) : 466GB (NTFS) @ WDC WD5000AADS-00S9B0 (500.1GB, SATA300, 3.5", 32MB Cache)
Optical Drive (D:) : N/A @ Optiarc DVD RW AD-7240S (SATA150, DVD+-RW, CD-RW, 2MB Cache)

Peripherals
LPC Hub Controller 1 : ASUS LPC Interface Controller
LPC Legacy Controller 1 : T0 A5-13
Audio Device : ASUS HD Audio Controller
Audio Device : HIS (Hightech Information Systems) RV730XT Audio device [Radeon HD 4670]
Serial Port(s) : 1
Disk Controller : ASUS 4 port SATA IDE Controller
Disk Controller : ASUS 2 port SATA IDE Controller
Disk Controller : ASUS JMB361 AHCI/IDE
USB Controller 1 : ASUS USB UHCI Controller #4
USB Controller 2 : ASUS USB UHCI Controller #5
USB Controller 3 : ASUS USB UHCI Controller #6
USB Controller 4 : ASUS USB EHCI Controller #2
USB Controller 5 : ASUS USB UHCI Controller #1
USB Controller 6 : ASUS USB UHCI Controller #2
USB Controller 7 : ASUS USB UHCI Controller #3
USB Controller 8 : ASUS USB EHCI Controller #1
FireWire/1394 Controller 1 : ASUS VT6315 Series Firewire Controller
SMBus/i2c Controller 1 : Intel ICH SMBus

Printers and Faxes
Printer : Microsoft XPS Document Writer (600x600, Colour)
Printer : Foxit Reader PDF Printer Driver (600x600, Colour)
Fax : Microsoft Shared Fax Driver (200x200)
Printer : Canon MG5400 series Printer (USB, Colour)
Printer : HP Universal Printing PS (600x600, USB, Colour)

Network Services
Network Adapter : Atheros AR8121/AR8113/AR8114 PCI-E Ethernet Controller(NDIS6.20) (Ethernet)
Wireless Adapter : NETGEAR A6200 WiFi Adapter (802.11n (HT), AES-CCMP, 144Mbps)

Operating System
Windows System : Microsoft Windows 7 Ultimate 6.01.7601 (Service Pack 1)
Platform Compliance : x64

Windows Experience Index
Current System : 5.9
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Re: Windows 7's impending death

Postby Agharta » Sun Mar 31, 2019 2:27 am

More than likely either the Intel P45 chipset or the Radeon HD 4600 GPU would be the issue if it's a hardware incompatibility.
If it's the graphics card you can probably get a newer one with W10 support cheaply enough.
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Re: Windows 7's impending death

Postby DC-Choppah » Sun Mar 31, 2019 3:29 am

Agharta wrote:More than likely either the Intel P45 chipset or the Radeon HD 4600 GPU would be the issue if it's a hardware incompatibility.
If it's the graphics card you can probably get a newer one with W10 support cheaply enough.

Indeed, it appears that the Radeon hd4600 graphics card is not compatible with Windows 10 and there are no new drivers being made for it. I can see that plenty of folks have Windows 10 running on this Motherboard.

Does anyone know what a basic display adapter is that would work? I use an HDMI cable to a big TV for a monitor. I don't need any fancy graphics, and don't play games. Just ProTools. I don't feel like I need a fancy graphics card, and I need something without an additional fan to keep the rig silent.
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Re: Windows 7's impending death

Postby Agharta » Sun Mar 31, 2019 4:30 am

I would use Newegg as they allow you to filter based on whether cards are passively cooled or not.
Then sort by price and note the cheaper GPUs and check the manufacturer for driver support.
Once you have chosen a chip you can check prices elsewhere of course.

If for some reason someone wants a higher power GPU for other purposes there are quite a few that will run in fanless mode until they are pushed hard when gaming etc.
The same is true of power supplies.
So it's fairly easy to build a system that is quiet when only stressing the CPU when using a DAW but still has the grunt to run a 200w GPU when required.
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Re: Windows 7's impending death

Postby OneWorld » Tue Apr 09, 2019 12:52 pm

DC-Choppah wrote:
Agharta wrote:More than likely either the Intel P45 chipset or the Radeon HD 4600 GPU would be the issue if it's a hardware incompatibility.
If it's the graphics card you can probably get a newer one with W10 support cheaply enough.

Indeed, it appears that the Radeon hd4600 graphics card is not compatible with Windows 10 and there are no new drivers being made for it. I can see that plenty of folks have Windows 10 running on this Motherboard.

Does anyone know what a basic display adapter is that would work? I use an HDMI cable to a big TV for a monitor. I don't need any fancy graphics, and don't play games. Just ProTools. I don't feel like I need a fancy graphics card, and I need something without an additional fan to keep the rig silent.

I too use a basic graphics Radeon 550 card that outputs up to 4K resolution and use a 4K tv as my monitor, works great, though I do find the 3840 x 2160 resolution a bit too high. It's a 40" monitor and the 3200 x 1800 resolution quite adequate
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Re: Windows 7's impending death

Postby Pete Kaine » Wed Apr 10, 2019 9:45 am

Agharta wrote:Then sort by price and note the cheaper GPUs and check the manufacturer for driver support.

Just to add to this for a little bit of extra clarity for anyone following, the chipset manufacturer and not the card itself tends to be the best choice when digging up the latest drivers. The unified drivers that AMD and Nvidia provide are generation wide, so whilst most card makers will cease updating their product page drivers you can normally locate some support for a good few years longer on most cards that get released if you go straight to the source.

Passive cards are becoming rarer these days and it's a tad annoying. Nvidia's latest models were the last gen 1030's and 1050's (although the 2030s haven't arrived yet) and the last AMD's I can recall was the R5 230's which I don't think even have driver support at this point.

Hybrid cards are indeed the way forward at this point, but they tend to only include "3D Active" or whatever it's called this month on certain premium and often higher end cards. In the mid-range, they often focus on fan profiling instead and which in a lot of cases is nowhere near as effective.

Sat here wondering if the Intel discrete range will help to rectify this whenever it arrives, or if they are just going to aim at the gamers with it.
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Re: Windows 7's impending death

Postby DC-Choppah » Sat Apr 20, 2019 10:35 pm

Just reporting in that I successfully updated the studio Box to Windows 10. I swapped the graphics card out for a MSi GT 710 which is fanless and supports Windows 10. That was the only hardware I changed and Windows 10 went right in.

This card:
https://us.msi.com/Graphics-card/GT-710 ... P/Overview

Thanks Agharta for identifying that part for me. No way I would have figured that out myself.
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Re: Windows 7's impending death

Postby Agharta » Sat Apr 20, 2019 10:56 pm

Pete Kaine wrote:
Agharta wrote:Then sort by price and note the cheaper GPUs and check the manufacturer for driver support.

Just to add to this for a little bit of extra clarity for anyone following, the chipset manufacturer and not the card itself tends to be the best choice when digging up the latest drivers.
Thanks for clarifying that Pete as I automatically think of the chip manufacturer rather than the board manufacturer so failed to make that distinction clear. :thumbup:
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Re: Windows 7's impending death

Postby Agharta » Sat Apr 20, 2019 11:01 pm

DC-Choppah wrote:Thanks Agharta for identifying that part for me. No way I would have figured that out myself.
You are welcome and glad it helped you.
I don't live in the USA so never used Newegg except for its excellent filtering system. Handy when choosing a motherboard as well as a GPU as you can filter by so many parameters.
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Re: Windows 7's impending death

Postby DC-Choppah » Sun Apr 21, 2019 11:33 pm

Agharta wrote:
DC-Choppah wrote:Thanks Agharta for identifying that part for me. No way I would have figured that out myself.
You are welcome and glad it helped you.
I don't live in the USA so never used Newegg except for its excellent filtering system. Handy when choosing a motherboard as well as a GPU as you can filter by so many parameters.

When Windows 10 update fails it doesn't say why? You helped me zero in on that graphics card!? Thanks Man!

Now though, ProTools is working great, I can't seem to send audio to my motherboard audio device?
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