You are here

Kemper & OX hardware ...vs... VSTs?

For everything after the recording stage: hardware/software and how you use it.

Re: Kemper & OX hardware ...vs... VSTs?

Postby John Egan » Thu Jun 20, 2019 5:10 pm

Elephone wrote:
But this is in recording also, not just live. I simply think you can hear the difference between physics of an amp and virtual reality (as would be expected, why wouldn't it be?) perhaps not so much with very uniform guitar amp tones like so many players seem to opt for, or droney playing, or heavily compressed/fuzzy amp sounds, but one thing seems to encourage the other.

Can you hear a difference on record between miked up amplifiers and modeling ? I can't with modern models, but clearly, the live sound experience is very different. In my (long ago) experience, when we supported top bands, we were at first surprised when there was a difference, when we had previously been trying to capture a "recorded" sound. Then we found that the difficulty with trying to capture a "live" sound was that we couldn't really tell how we sounded, so we just concentrated on trying to get the balance right on stage and hoped that the result translated well in the venue.
Nowadays, I simply aim for a decent sound coming out of the monitors.
Regards, John
User avatar
John Egan
Posts: 359
Joined: Wed Nov 27, 2002 1:00 am
Location: Staffordshire, England

Re: Kemper & OX hardware ...vs... VSTs?

Postby Sam Spoons » Thu Jun 20, 2019 5:50 pm

Playing an electric guitar in the same room as the amp/speaker will definitely sound different to playing it in a different room as the sound from the speaker will excite the strings causing different harmonics and overtones and even simply feed back like the last chord in Santana's Black Magic Woman turns into feedback. That would be impossible with the speaker in a different room.
User avatar
Sam Spoons
Jedi Poster
Posts: 11187
Joined: Thu Jan 23, 2003 1:00 am
Location: Manchester UK
Finally taking this recording lark seriously (and recording my Gypsy Jazz CD)........

Re: Kemper & OX hardware ...vs... VSTs?

Postby Elephone » Fri Jul 12, 2019 10:09 pm

I do understand that people seem to go to an awful lot of trouble for nothing, i.e...

...or am I missing something?

But there is a strange barrier between in-the-box approach and live playing that I'd like to collapse for myself.

I know there are hybrid systems available but, if I had a home studio and had friends coming round to jam... and I wanted to use VSTi-s and pedal VSTs, but not compromise the live feel.. what would be a good setup?

Would 're-amping' (whereby I sometimes actually mean playing live but using keyboard VSTi-s and guitars through pedal and/or amp VSTs) be better than using studio monitor/s in the room?

Okay, that obviously that depends on what real amps or VSTs you have available, what sound you want, etc.... but are people moving towards some kind of hybrid set up or does it just bring a lot of new problems?

Frequent Poster
Posts: 1169
Joined: Wed Feb 11, 2009 1:00 am

Re: Kemper & OX hardware ...vs... VSTs?

Postby Music Wolf » Sat Jul 13, 2019 7:36 am

Elephone wrote:if I had a home studio and had friends coming round to jam... and I wanted to use VSTi-s and pedal VSTs, but not compromise the live feel.. what would be a good setup?

It depends upon what you define as 'live feel'. If your idea of live means a backline at volume and without in-ear monitoring then you need a 'proper' amp / cab setup. Even if you use something like a Kemper or a Helix you are going to want to turn the cab simulations off and play through a power amp / guitar cab setup (For the genuine live experience point the cab at the back of your knees and turn up to be at least twice as loud as you need to be :bouncy:).

If you are used to playing live with in-ear monitoring then you'll already be used to hearing the sound of a mic'd cab and you won't be able to tell the difference between that and a sim (the audience will though. With the sim they'll get a balanced mix rather than one where the lead guitarist is drowning out everybody else even without going through the PA).

If you're jamming then what you may well miss is the simplicity of a conventional amp. In the heat of battle when you want to say quickly add a bid of mid - that may not be so easy if you have to scroll through a couple of menus. I also have a Blackstar ID60TVP combo for when I have a jam or a first session with a new band. It's still a modelling amp but it has controls like a conventional amp. It doesn't sound as good, and isn't as flexible, as my Helix but it's much easier to get a workable sound from scratch.
User avatar
Music Wolf
Frequent Poster
Posts: 1854
Joined: Fri Feb 17, 2006 1:00 am
Location: Exiled to St Helens

Re: Kemper & OX hardware ...vs... VSTs?

Postby The Elf » Sat Jul 13, 2019 8:03 am

Why "a lot of trouble for nothing"? The benefits of re-amping are very significant for metal - there's a lot of tidying up between performing and re-amping that gets those guitar parts to sound superhuman.

Don't miss that that video is nearly a decade old - these are well established techniques.

Interesting they're using The RP-1000 there - a pedal I like very much myself. I have a few RP pedals, including the 1000 and 500,
User avatar
The Elf
Jedi Poster
Posts: 13498
Joined: Tue Aug 14, 2001 12:00 am
Location: Sheffield, UK
An Eagle for an Emperor, A Kestrel for a Knave.