You are here

Recommend sofware with high-precision FFT analysis with resolution to -384dB?

For everything after the recording stage: hardware/software and how you use it.

Recommend sofware with high-precision FFT analysis with resolution to -384dB?

Postby Uncle Freddie » Fri Jul 19, 2019 8:40 pm

Hi,

Can anyone recommend Mac and/or PC audio analysis software packages that -- and here's the tricky part -- offer high-precision FFT analysis with resolution all the way down to -384dB? That would be 64 bits of resolution.

Thanks,
Fred
Uncle Freddie
Poster
Posts: 46
Joined: Sat Apr 23, 2016 12:00 am
Location: Detroit, USA

Re: Recommend sofware with high-precision FFT analysis with resolution to -384dB?

Postby Folderol » Fri Jul 19, 2019 8:55 pm

Good Lord!
What on earth for? :o
User avatar
Folderol
Jedi Poster
Posts: 9185
Joined: Sat Nov 15, 2008 1:00 am
Location: The Mudway Towns, UK
Yes. I am that Linux nut.
Onwards and... err... sideways!

Re: Recommend sofware with high-precision FFT analysis with resolution to -384dB?

Postby Hugh Robjohns » Fri Jul 19, 2019 8:58 pm

:D that was going to be my question, too!
User avatar
Hugh Robjohns
Moderator
Posts: 25032
Joined: Fri Jul 25, 2003 12:00 am
Location: Worcestershire, UK
Technical Editor, Sound On Sound

Re: Recommend sofware with high-precision FFT analysis with resolution to -384dB?

Postby Uncle Freddie » Sat Jul 20, 2019 6:32 am

:) :)

I'm looking for this depth of resolution for test and measurement of truncation noise and other distortions.

In macOS, I have used Aurchitect's Spectre software for this, eventually switching to their Aura package. Both are considerably buggy. On top of that, in mid-May the company went out of business over ownership lawsuits. They even wiped their website (http://aurchitect.com) completely off the air.

I recently began using SPL Hawkeye, but it only goes down to -220dB (I have filed an enhancement request to increase that to -384dB)

Surely there must be software out there, Mac or PC, perhaps aimed at the test and measurement audience, that can do this?

Thanks,
Fred
Uncle Freddie
Poster
Posts: 46
Joined: Sat Apr 23, 2016 12:00 am
Location: Detroit, USA

Re: Recommend sofware with high-precision FFT analysis with resolution to -384dB?

Postby Martin Walker » Sat Jul 20, 2019 8:52 am

I must admit I'm still a bit in the dark - highly regarded plug-in developers have stated that in most cases for audio work you can declare anything further down than -125dB below the signal as inaudible :?


Martin
User avatar
Martin Walker
Moderator
Posts: 14602
Joined: Wed Jan 13, 2010 9:44 am
Location: Cornwall, UK

Re: Recommend sofware with high-precision FFT analysis with resolution to -384dB?

Postby ef37a » Sat Jul 20, 2019 8:57 am

Martin Walker wrote:I must admit I'm still a bit in the dark - highly regarded plug-in developers have stated that in most cases for audio work you can declare anything further down than -125dB below the signal as inaudible :?


Martin

Quite. Nothing is that quiet except perhaps liquid Helium?

Dave.
ef37a
Jedi Poster
Posts: 10873
Joined: Mon May 29, 2006 12:00 am
Location: northampton uk

Re: Recommend sofware with high-precision FFT analysis with resolution to -384dB?

Postby Sam Spoons » Sat Jul 20, 2019 8:59 am

Is there a theoretical measurement for 'absolute silence'? :D
User avatar
Sam Spoons
Jedi Poster
Posts: 10549
Joined: Thu Jan 23, 2003 1:00 am
Location: Manchester UK
Finally taking this recording lark seriously (and recording my Gypsy Jazz CD)........

Re: Recommend sofware with high-precision FFT analysis with resolution to -384dB?

Postby Martin Walker » Sat Jul 20, 2019 9:07 am

I'm beginning to suspect that Uncle Freddie may be exploring mathematical concepts/algorithms, rather than real-world audio.

However, I'd still be surprised if any signal that low would be worth exploring, apart from in a cutting edge lab environment.

Fascinated to hear more though!


Martin
User avatar
Martin Walker
Moderator
Posts: 14602
Joined: Wed Jan 13, 2010 9:44 am
Location: Cornwall, UK

Re: Recommend sofware with high-precision FFT analysis with resolution to -384dB?

Postby ef37a » Sat Jul 20, 2019 9:30 am

Sam Spoons wrote:Is there a theoretical measurement for 'absolute silence'? :D

Well, as per my "He" at absolute zero, by definition energy is zero* so that has to be zero noise?

*I understand there can still be electron spin but can you "hear" electrons? BTW "I understand" is just a turn of phrase. I don't!

Dave.
ef37a
Jedi Poster
Posts: 10873
Joined: Mon May 29, 2006 12:00 am
Location: northampton uk

Re: Recommend sofware with high-precision FFT analysis with resolution to -384dB?

Postby Logarhythm » Sat Jul 20, 2019 10:24 am

ef37a wrote:
Sam Spoons wrote:Is there a theoretical measurement for 'absolute silence'? :D

Well, as per my "He" at absolute zero, by definition energy is zero* so that has to be zero noise?

*I understand there can still be electron spin but can you "hear" electrons? BTW "I understand" is just a turn of phrase. I don't!

Dave.
There is no absolute zero, Dave ;)
Well there is in terms of 0 Kelvin, but quantum mech prohibits this being a truly zero energy state and it's perhaps better viewed as the lowest energy state - thus there will still be "noise" of sorts, and indeed noise is perhaps an appropriate adjective for e.g. quantum vacuum fluctuations.

And I'm also really curious to know what Uncle Freddie is up to!
Logarhythm
Frequent Poster
Posts: 803
Joined: Fri Mar 30, 2012 12:00 am
Location: On an intergalactic voyage to collect fresh electrons

Re: Recommend sofware with high-precision FFT analysis with resolution to -384dB?

Postby blinddrew » Sat Jul 20, 2019 10:25 am

It's amazing the things you learn on here.
User avatar
blinddrew
Jedi Poster
Posts: 8502
Joined: Sun Jul 05, 2015 12:00 am
Location: York
Ignore the post count, I have no idea what I'm doing...

Re: Recommend sofware with high-precision FFT analysis with resolution to -384dB?

Postby ConcertinaChap » Sat Jul 20, 2019 11:02 am

Logarhythm wrote:There is no absolute zero, Dave ;)
Well there is in terms of 0 Kelvin, but quantum mech prohibits this being a truly zero energy state and it's perhaps better viewed as the lowest energy state

That's true. Interestingly from a classical perspective as well you can't reach absolute zero because it's one of these boundary conditions, like the speed of light, that require greater and greater amounts of energy the closer you approach them and would require infinite energy to actually achieve.

Logarhythm wrote:And I'm also really curious to know what Uncle Freddie is up to!

:thumbup:

CC
User avatar
ConcertinaChap
Jedi Poster
Posts: 7744
Joined: Wed Jul 20, 2005 12:00 am
Location: Bradford on Avon
Making music: Eagle Alley, recording music: Mr Punch's Studio
If you want me I'll be down on Sound on Sound on Sound.

Re: Recommend sofware with high-precision FFT analysis with resolution to -384dB?

Postby Wonks » Sat Jul 20, 2019 11:40 am

Can't be for audio, as the electronic noise of the input system will create a noise floor way above the lowest resolution of the analyser. That limits the resolution of a standard 24-bit A/D audio converter to maybe 21 bits, 22 at best. So even if you used a 64-bit A/D converter set up with it's upper limit at around 150dB, I'd guess you'd be wasting at least 30 of those bits as they'd be below the electronics noise floor.
User avatar
Wonks
Jedi Poster
Posts: 10143
Joined: Thu May 29, 2003 12:00 am
Location: Reading, UK
Correcting mistakes on the internet since 1853

Re: Recommend sofware with high-precision FFT analysis with resolution to -384dB?

Postby Uncle Freddie » Sat Jul 20, 2019 2:30 pm

I would be delighted to tell you all what I am up to, but I cannot at the moment. ;) Soon, though.

In case I was not clear earlier: Aurchitect's Aura indeed has FFT resolution down to -384dBFS. What I am asking for is not unheard of. :D

I still use it, or rather I try desperately to use it, because I am fed up with its bugs. Which by the way will never be fixed, now that the company has gone belly-up.

Aura is Mac software, but I am entirely open to a Windows utility for this.

Thanks,
Fred
Uncle Freddie
Poster
Posts: 46
Joined: Sat Apr 23, 2016 12:00 am
Location: Detroit, USA

Re: Recommend sofware with high-precision FFT analysis with resolution to -384dB?

Postby James Perrett » Sat Jul 20, 2019 2:55 pm

For serious analysis work most people would be thinking of Matlab or the free alternatives like Scilab or Gnu Octave.
User avatar
James Perrett
Moderator
Posts: 8580
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2001 12:00 am
Location: The wilds of Hampshire
JRP Music - Audio Mastering and Restoration. JRP Music Facebook Page

Re: Recommend sofware with high-precision FFT analysis with resolution to -384dB?

Postby DC-Choppah » Thu Jul 25, 2019 2:10 am

Mathematica supports data types with arbitrarily large precision. You can do an FFT on data with as high a precision as you want.

X:=N[{0,0,0,1,1,2,1,1,0,0},100]

Defines a waveform stored numerically with a data type having 100 significant digits.

Any process you apply will be done with that precision such as an FFT.

Fourier[X]
User avatar
DC-Choppah
Frequent Poster
Posts: 1240
Joined: Fri Jul 20, 2012 12:00 am
Location: MD, USA


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users