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Rewiring cubase to protools.

Postby MadManDan » Mon Dec 09, 2019 3:12 pm

Hi all.

I've wrangled with midi editing in pro tools long enough now. I really need something a lot more professional for programming superior drummer 3. Cubase elements seems right up my alley.

But I'm not clear on whether or not it can be rewired as a slave to pro tools. Trying to research this, as it'd be essential to my work flow.

I know I can bounce audio out from PT, (my preferred daw), program midi in cubase and xfer back but I'd really rather not. My whole reason for considering cubase is Just as a midi extension of protools.

Does anyone out there make this configuration work for them?

Thanks
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Re: Rewiring cubase to protools.

Postby The Elf » Mon Dec 09, 2019 4:07 pm

This way lies madness...

Really, I wouldn't go here. If you need Cubase, then use Cubase. If you then need PT, then export to PT. Your life will be simpler.
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Re: Rewiring cubase to protools.

Postby MadManDan » Mon Dec 09, 2019 7:26 pm

The Elf wrote:This way lies madness. Really, I wouldn't go here.

That bleak huh Elf? Ugh. Well I have the following: studio one 4, reaper, and ableton live lite. I'm not even gonna dignify garage band but have that too.

Certainly live should lock up. I've already tried reaper with no luck.

My hope is to see what locks up and if so, will it be a satisfying midi experience.

Maybe my heart is set too much on cubase. From what I've heard and read, their level of midi programming is just so wonderfully in depth.
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Re: Rewiring cubase to protools.

Postby The Elf » Mon Dec 09, 2019 7:49 pm

I see no reason not to just use Cubase if you want to use it - there's no need to to have to drag the results back to PT at all.
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Re: Rewiring cubase to protools.

Postby MadManDan » Mon Dec 09, 2019 8:02 pm

The Elf wrote:I see no reason not to just use Cubase if you want to use it - there's no need to to have to drag the results back to PT at all.
So basically abandon pro tools :headbang: I like it tho. All except for the midi. Even considering purchasing PT as opposed to renting
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Re: Rewiring cubase to protools.

Postby Luke W » Mon Dec 09, 2019 9:53 pm

If you're considering a perpetual licence for PT then make sure you read up on it thoroughly, the annual upgrade plan prices have doubled recently and they're about to scrap the ability to reinstate a plan if you let it lapse, so you could end up stuck with the version you buy or being pushed back to a subscription license if you want to update.

I very nearly grabbed Cubase when Steinberg had their 30th anniversary sale and despite being perfectly happy with PT, I'm kicking myself a little bit now...
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Re: Rewiring cubase to protools.

Postby The Red Bladder » Mon Dec 09, 2019 10:30 pm

Anyone buying into ProTools is buying the idea that Avid will still be alive in a few year's time. Considering Avid continues to struggle, owns none of the programmes it sells, the programmes are written by subcontractors in Poland and is up to its ears in more debt than it is worth, that seems a rather far-fetched assumption! It is a company in negative equity that is living from hand-to-mouth.

If you buy into CuBase, you are buying into the idea that Yamaha will continue to remain devoted to the music market. It was established in 1887 and has remained true to that mission throughout that 133-year history.

I am hardly a Yamaha or CuBase fan, but their history speaks for itself!
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Re: Rewiring cubase to protools.

Postby The Elf » Mon Dec 09, 2019 11:29 pm

MadManDan wrote:
The Elf wrote:I see no reason not to just use Cubase if you want to use it - there's no need to to have to drag the results back to PT at all.
So basically abandon pro tools :headbang: I like it tho. All except for the midi. Even considering purchasing PT as opposed to renting
It's up to you. I just see no point in making life complicated. You've decided that Cubase does something that PT doesn't give you, so does PT do anything that Cubase doesn't? If the answer is 'yes', then maybe both is a good solution. It's one to ponder.
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Re: Rewiring cubase to protools.

Postby MadManDan » Tue Dec 10, 2019 2:00 am

Luke W wrote:If you're considering a perpetual licence for PT then make sure you read up on it thoroughly, the annual upgrade plan prices have doubled recently and they're about to scrap the ability to reinstate a plan if you let it lapse, so you could end up stuck with the version you buy or being pushed back to a subscription license if you want to update.

The Red Bladder wrote:Anyone buying into ProTools is buying the idea that Avid will still be alive in a few year's time.  Considering Avid continues to struggle, owns none of the programmes it sells, the programmes are written by subcontractors in Poland and is up to its ears in more debt than it is worth, that seems a rather far-fetched assumption!  It is a company in negative equity that is living from hand-to-mouth.

Ok so it's not just me getting this kinda brazen vibe from them. Even if their midi was 75% as good as cubase they'd still seem arrogant.

I feel like I've kinda been herded into 2019.6 via yearly sub. $25/mo. I sense they prefer to keep us on an ever-updating sub model as opposed to us purchasing outright. From their standpoint they'd never have to worry about legacy support.

Now they've given me all these fantastic plug ins but if heaven forbid times are tough and I miss one payment I lose them all. Same thing with Heat. You lapse, they go bye bye.

So that's why I started thinking "yknow I might as well buy." At $600 it'll pay for itself in two years. And I plan on getting five out of it.

But... I didn't take service into account. I can call up now with problems and they'll sort me out. But pay $100 year if I own it? Wtf. That's really high.

Arrrrgh

I probably owe it to myself to seriously check cubase out. My connection with PT? I dunno, I'm comfy with it. But sometimes it's better to push comfort zones. And they did just give me a crap ton of plug ins. Biggest commitment is that I have so much already done on it. I'd need PT to be able to bring those tracks back.

Yknow what disturbs me the most is how I sound like a battered wife who won't pick up the kids and leave :headbang: :round1:
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Re: Rewiring cubase to protools.

Postby The Red Bladder » Tue Dec 10, 2019 2:23 am

Better still, just download Reaper.
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Re: Rewiring cubase to protools.

Postby MadManDan » Tue Dec 10, 2019 3:42 am

Boy this thread is sure documenting my ever degrading view of Pt :protest:

By the end of it, I've abandoned it completely, gotten full out cubase, and PT First to xfer the old stuff :headbang:
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Re: Rewiring cubase to protools.

Postby Mixedup » Tue Dec 10, 2019 10:16 am

Cubase can't be a Rewire slave, only a host. I mean, you could sync the two DAWs, and use a virtual soundcard to get audio from one to the other (eg the Sendit plug-in that comes with DDMF Metaplugin) but I don't recommend it. It will be a fiddly approach and likely drive you insane.

Reaper can be a Rewire slave, though, and can thus work like this with PT... I used to use it back in the day to give me additional audio inputs for Pro Tools LE (whose audio tracks were severely limited, but whose aux tracks weren't!). And if you want, you can set it up to edit/program MIDII drums kinda like Cubase: SOS workshop

Or... if you're hell bent on using PT, just learn how to program in PT and save yourself some headaches in the long run. :headbang:
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Re: Rewiring cubase to protools.

Postby Luke W » Tue Dec 10, 2019 10:50 am

The Elf wrote:You've decided that Cubase does something that PT doesn't give you, so does PT do anything that Cubase doesn't? If the answer is 'yes', then maybe both is a good solution. It's one to ponder.

I think this sums it up well and it's where I stand currently, the moment I feel that PT doesn't do something I need then I'll be looking to move. I don't find that PT limits me with what I do with software instruments, but I work a lot more with audio than MIDI or software instruments so my needs aren't as demanding as some people. I've not used Cubase for quite a few versions now, but from what I understand it's audio capabilities are as good as any so I'm sure it would be an all in one solution for you. People who actually use it will be better qualified to confirm that though!
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Re: Rewiring cubase to protools.

Postby The Elf » Tue Dec 10, 2019 11:52 am

I've completed dozens of albums exclusively in Cubase, so I can confirm it's a one-stop solution. Since VariAudio arrived I've had no need for Melodyne and we even now have integrated Vocalign-ish capabilities - the two facilities I had historically been dipping out of Cubase to access.

This doesn't mean other options aren't equally valid.
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Re: Rewiring cubase to protools.

Postby MadManDan » Tue Dec 10, 2019 2:31 pm

I've been looking at cubase artist now because elements is a touch too thin and pro is overkill.

I guess what it really comes down to is ongoing customer service. How is it?

Afa using PT First for xferring old material, it might be the best option, being free. My material doesn't have a ton of tracks but it does exceed their 16 limit.

So as long as files from PT12/2018/2019 can load up and allow access to 16 tks at a time for rendering, I'm ok with that.
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Re: Rewiring cubase to protools.

Postby The Elf » Tue Dec 10, 2019 3:50 pm

The trick I've found with PT imports is to just import PT's raw audio files into Cubase, select them all and do a 'Move to Origin'. This places all the audio into the correct relative position. You may find they all jump to somewhere way down the timeline, but once you have the relative positions you can just grab them all once again and place them where you like.

This is pretty much what I've been doing for years with no problem.
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Re: Rewiring cubase to protools.

Postby MadManDan » Tue Dec 10, 2019 6:19 pm

So how is their technical support? Pay annually for it?
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Re: Rewiring cubase to protools.

Postby The Elf » Tue Dec 10, 2019 6:34 pm

MadManDan wrote:So how is their technical support? Pay annually for it?
I've never used it. There's no charge for support.

TBH I suspect you're likely to get a faster response from this, and Steinberg's, forum than any support service. I have no proof of this, but I'd place a sizeable bet...
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Re: Rewiring cubase to protools.

Postby MadManDan » Wed Dec 11, 2019 1:53 am

So let me get this straight:

Pro tools is excellent at everything but midi, and over charges for support.

Cubase excels at everything and support is free?

In high school pro tools would be the nerd who didn't make honor roll because of a "c" in creative writing, and failing shop class, yet over charges to tutor classmates.

Cubase is secretly on the honor roll, stars in the school play, and helps friends with their homework.
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Re: Rewiring cubase to protools.

Postby Kwackman » Wed Dec 11, 2019 10:43 am

MadManDan wrote:So let me get this straight:

Pro tools is excellent at everything but midi, and over charges for support.

Cubase excels at everything and support is free?

In high school pro tools would be the nerd who didn't make honor roll because of a "c" in creative writing, and failing shop class, yet over charges to tutor classmates.

Cubase is secretly on the honor roll, stars in the school play, and helps friends with their homework.

It's not that black and white.
People make great music using Protools, others make great music using Cubase, Logic, Reaper and the list goes on.
No DAW is perfect, and none are absolutely crap.
YOU need to find the best one for YOU!

As MIDI is important to you then, yes, perhaps Protools isn't the one for you.
Historically Protools was an audio (as opposed to MIDI) recorder, before it added MIDI facilities.
Cubase and Logic (previously called Notator) were MIDI only DAWs (on Atari computers) before audio on computers became affordable to most musicians.

Full disclosure- my DAW of choice for music is Cubase. I've used it since Pro-24 on an Atari.
I tried another DAW for a while (not Pro-tools).
I found it's mixer more intuitive than the mixer in Cubase.
But I found Cubase much easier to compose and edit on, although that might have been simply years of familiarity.
So I went back to Cubase, and over the next few upgrades it's mixer improved to be easier to use anyway!

If you go to Cubase I don't think you'll be disappointed with the MIDI facilities.
It has a Drum Edit page which it's had since Pro-24 and IMHO, it's superb. (other opinions are available, but they're wrong :shh: )
But, you will have to unlearn some ProTool stuff and learn the Cubase way of doing things.
And, like all DAWs, you will be shouting obscenities at the screen sometimes!
Good luck with whatever choice you make. :thumbup:
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