You are here

New to Mac-Logic Pro X

For current or would-be users of Apple Mac computers, with answers to many FAQs.

New to Mac-Logic Pro X

Postby VOLOVIA » Wed Jul 29, 2020 9:56 am

Dear all, I moved from many many years on Cubase on PC to Logic Pro X on a Mac Book Pro.
I have a few of issues that I cannot get an answer to from the Apple supporters site and I want to try with you informed lot.

OK, the first gripe I have is the awkward use of the stereo/mono setup. I explain, say you have edited a vocal track, clearly in mono, and quickly want to bounce it into a new track or export it. Easy peasy in Cubeworld. Here it appears, that the software will only bounce it in stereo. There is a way around, i.e., turning the 'mixer' into mono, then assigning the track to one of the mono buses, then bounce it. You have to remember to switch the mixer back to stereo of course, afterwards.
Same for the otherwise handy -bounce all- feature: it just creates stereo versions of all the tracks regardless if they were stereo or mono. This is highly annoying.

Second, a problem I had with Cubase but I was hoping that it would not, of course, happen on a Mac product: when I do pitch correction, let's say, on a vocal take, one time out of 10 it will create a clip of sorts, or a 'granular' sound to the word. Not a big issue, one thinks, just undo it. And this is the issue: the original recording goes back to the unpitched version but the click or noise now is imprinted and there is no level of undo that can clean this up and bring it back to original. Rather frustrating.

Last, on a number of occasions, the loading song will show a 'cannot find wave'. Not a problem, according to the manual/blogs, just go to the source list and it will show a 'missing' wave with a warning sign. Great. Not. When I click on the wave the option for delete is greyed out. No answer on this from the support fori.

Yes, I have read (most) of the manual, but to no avail.

Cheers, for your help!
User avatar
VOLOVIA
Regular
Posts: 419
Joined: Thu Oct 01, 2009 12:00 am
Location: London
VOLOVIA - FACEBOOK - TWITTER Songwriter/guitarist

Re: New to Mac-Logic Pro X

Postby desmond » Wed Jul 29, 2020 10:18 am

VOLOVIA wrote:I have a few of issues that I cannot get an answer to from the Apple supporters site and I want to try with you informed lot.

This is common when starting with a new product, especially if you have been used to the way previous product did things and expect the new thing to behave in the same way.

VOLOVIA wrote:OK, the first gripe I have is the awkward use of the stereo/mono setup. I explain, say you have edited a vocal track, clearly in mono, and quickly want to bounce it into a new track or export it. Easy peasy in Cubeworld. Here it appears, that the software will only bounce it in stereo.

Nope.

VOLOVIA wrote:There is a way around, i.e., turning the 'mixer' into mono, then assigning the track to one of the mono buses, then bounce it. You have to remember to switch the mixer back to stereo of course, afterwards.

A regular bounce is bouncing from the output object. The bounce format takes on the format of the output object. If you want a mono bounce, you set the output to mono, otherwise, if it's stereo, you get a stereo bounce. (Same for surround).

This is clearly stated in the manual:

"The format (stereo, mono, or surround) of the resulting bounce file (or files) depends on the format of the output channel strip. Output 1-2 is the default output channel strip used for bounces, and produces a stereo audio file. When the output channel strip is set to mono, a mono audio file is generated."

https://help.apple.com/logicpro/mac/10.4.7/#/lgcp785a41c3

However, there are many ways to bounce in Logic. For example, the "bounce-in-place" feature will easily bounce out a mono file if you want it to.

VOLOVIA wrote:Same for the otherwise handy -bounce all- feature: it just creates stereo versions of all the tracks regardless if they were stereo or mono. This is highly annoying.

Again, you have to remember that regular bounces are bouncing from the output object, so whatever format the output object is will be the bounce format. You're running tracks through a stereo mixer, to a stereo output (most of the time). If you want to bounce a track through the stereo mixer, to a mono file, somewhere along the line you have to convert to mono - and this is best done by changing the output to mono.

VOLOVIA wrote:Second, a problem I had with Cubase but I was hoping that it would not, of course, happen on a Mac product: when I do pitch correction, let's say, on a vocal take, one time out of 10 it will create a clip of sorts, or a 'granular' sound to the word. Not a big issue, one thinks, just undo it. And this is the issue: the original recording goes back to the unpitched version but the click or noise now is imprinted and there is no level of undo that can clean this up and bring it back to original. Rather frustrating.

I don't know, I don't tend to use Flex Pitch that much in Logic, I prefer Melodyne, which I think is better. Are you sure you are turning Flex Pitch off on the track, and not just leaving it on but with no pitch changes (in which case, audio is still being run through the flex pitch stuff). Flex Pitch is non-destructive to audio, so when it's off, the original file should play back and will not have been changed.

VOLOVIA wrote:Last, on a number of occasions, the loading song will show a 'cannot find wave'. Not a problem, according to the manual/blogs, just go to the source list and it will show a 'missing' wave with a warning sign. Great. Not. When I click on the wave the option for delete is greyed out. No answer on this from the support fori.

The alert wording is exactly "cannot find wave"..? What is the missing file? Is it a regular audio file used in the arrange? Or is this something used in a plugin/sampler? Where is this file located? What is the status of that file in the audio window?

I generally save all my audio assets to the project, so I never have any issues with missing assets, but I've seen people that record anywhere, or don't even know where they are recording to, and get in a terrible muddle trying to find files (especially after moving things around).
User avatar
desmond
Jedi Poster
Posts: 10084
Joined: Tue Jan 10, 2006 1:00 am
mu:zines | music magazine archive | difficultAudio

Re: New to Mac-Logic Pro X

Postby VOLOVIA » Wed Jul 29, 2020 12:01 pm

This is great and speedy help. However, I am quite certain that even after switching the output to mono, which is very easy to do/undo, the produced track is still in stereo. I was doing so from a (mono) bass track, soloing it, switching the output to mono, but the resulting file was still in stereo, probably identical signals on both channel, but still.
I will try this again tonight, maybe it's me being thick, but as I said I have a huge experience in DAW recordings (from Atari times...) and this is the first time that I encountered this issue. In Cubase when you save a file it just asks you if you want it in stereo or mono, a much neater option!

As per the corruption of the file, it is better that next time I come across this problem I create a file to share. Sound speaks louder than...

The last point on the file, again, I need to do maybe a screen grab to explain. I am talking just normal audio files, no sample or anything exotic. Apart from this, I don't understand why 5 out of the 9 songs I am recording cannot find one or two files. In a couple of occasions to solve the problem it was just a matter of opening the file browser, locating the file with the warning triangle and delete them. But on two songs although the question mark is visible showing the correct 'missing' file, it appears 'blank' (no waveform rendering) and it cannot be erased because the delete option is greyed out. This is the issue. I will document this if and when it happens again.

Thanks anyone, three better than the dedicated sites... sob.
User avatar
VOLOVIA
Regular
Posts: 419
Joined: Thu Oct 01, 2009 12:00 am
Location: London
VOLOVIA - FACEBOOK - TWITTER Songwriter/guitarist

Re: New to Mac-Logic Pro X

Postby desmond » Wed Jul 29, 2020 12:29 pm

VOLOVIA wrote:However, I am quite certain that even after switching the output to mono, which is very easy to do/undo, the produced track is still in stereo. I was doing so from a (mono) bass track, soloing it, switching the output to mono, but the resulting file was still in stereo, probably identical signals on both channel, but still.

I just did it now. It produces a mono file, as expected.

VOLOVIA wrote:In Cubase when you save a file it just asks you if you want it in stereo or mono, a much neater option!

Maybe, but part of the Apple way is to not necessarily overload the user with options. This way, it gives people what they expect most of the time, with the ability to change it should they want something different. It might take a week or two to get used to coming from other systems, but after that it's not a problem.

VOLOVIA wrote:As per the corruption of the file, it is better that next time I come across this problem I create a file to share. Sound speaks louder than...

Yes, that's helpful.

VOLOVIA wrote:The last point on the file, again, I need to do maybe a screen grab to explain. I am talking just normal audio files, no sample or anything exotic. Apart from this, I don't understand why 5 out of the 9 songs I am recording cannot find one or two files.

That does not sound normal, and does not match my experiences, both personally, and being on Logic forums for decades so I see almost all of the issues that crop up, from new users not understanding things, to some quite deep technical stuff. So there's probably something specific going on there that we'd need to troubleshoot.

VOLOVIA wrote:In a couple of occasions to solve the problem it was just a matter of opening the file browser, locating the file with the warning triangle and delete them. But on two songs although the question mark is visible showing the correct 'missing' file, it appears 'blank' (no waveform rendering) and it cannot be erased because the delete option is greyed out. This is the issue. I will document this if and when it happens again.

Sure, I'll be happy to look at it and try to help.

VOLOVIA wrote:Thanks anyone, three better than the dedicated sites... sob.

There's only one decent Logic forum, and I didn't see your post there, so I don't know where you were posting... :think: ;)
User avatar
desmond
Jedi Poster
Posts: 10084
Joined: Tue Jan 10, 2006 1:00 am
mu:zines | music magazine archive | difficultAudio

Re: New to Mac-Logic Pro X

Postby VOLOVIA » Thu Jul 30, 2020 4:37 am

Hi Desmond, thanks again. Quickly, this is the site where I posted my questions:

https://discussions.apple.com/community ... /logic_pro

Still, 19 views, no answers. SOS is different...

As per the boucing tracks, as sod's law demands, last night doing a similar thing I have been doing for weeks... it worked. My steps yesterday were simply to solo the track, and on the MIXER page output switch to MONO, then just bounce the 'Master' channel (not the number 2, which I suppose is the same). Et voila, mono tracks!
The only difference from what I did before was that I switched the STEREO to MONO in the "info" window to the left (which shows both individual track and the master track). This was apparantly mirrored in the main mixer track but as I posted, did not work for me.
Maybe a glitch with the info pane, or just begginners' slack.

Still, in future updates, it would be great if the export project as individual tracks it would be clever enough or with an option to 'respect' the nature of each track, be it mono or stereo.

However, thanks a lot, or a bunch if you are in the US, and as soon as I come across the glitchy/corrupt audio after Flex (and not being able to undo), I will post again.

Cheers
User avatar
VOLOVIA
Regular
Posts: 419
Joined: Thu Oct 01, 2009 12:00 am
Location: London
VOLOVIA - FACEBOOK - TWITTER Songwriter/guitarist

Re: New to Mac-Logic Pro X

Postby desmond » Thu Jul 30, 2020 9:33 am

VOLOVIA wrote:Quickly, this is the site where I posted my questions:
https://discussions.apple.com/community ... /logic_pro

Myself and most of the high end Logic pros left Apple Discussions over a decade ago. I hadn't posted there in well over ten years, and the last time I looked a few years back, I was still the top all time contributor. Now I see I've been overtaken and am down to #5... Anyway, the quality of discussion had degraded to a barrage of new user questions from people that seemed to barely understand what a sequencer was, so it was just too depressing answering the same questions again and again, and there was also a lot of entitlement and bad attitudes from people expecting help.

We mostly left for LogicProHelp.com, and while unfortunately this shows signs of going the same way (it's the nature of things), there's still a few of us there (although again, many of the good folks left as over time, as the value you get out of these discussion groups decreases as it's filled out with more new users).

VOLOVIA wrote:Still, 19 views, no answers. SOS is different...

It is, we're a nice bunch, but I (or someone else) would have responded just the same if you had posted on LPH. :thumbup:

VOLOVIA wrote:The only difference from what I did before was that I switched the STEREO to MONO in the "info" window to the left (which shows both individual track and the master track). This was apparantly mirrored in the main mixer track but as I posted, did not work for me.

The channels in the inspector and the mixer are the same exact thing. Most likely it was user error, but if it happens again and you have a specific procedure that isn't working as expected, I'll be happy to have a look at it.

VOLOVIA wrote:Still, in future updates, it would be great if the export project as individual tracks it would be clever enough or with an option to 'respect' the nature of each track, be it mono or stereo.

It already does this.

When you go to Export -> All tracks as audio files you get a dialog box with some options. If "Include Volume/Pan Automation" is checked you're saying "How the audio is routed and changed through the mixer is important, preserve this", so you'll get stereo files because the files are written as if they're going through the mixer, with volume, panning and automation and with a (usually) stereo output.

If you *uncheck* this, you're saying "I don't care about the mixer stuff, just export the tracks" in which case you'll get mono or stereo files of each track accordingly.

Basically - when checked, it's including pan position per track, which means a mono track will end up as the audio panned somewhere within a stereo track.

The various options are explained here:
https://help.apple.com/logicpro/mac/10.4.7/#/lgcpb27f70f9

Don't worry - this is all part of the learning curve of how a different DAW does things.
I'm fairly easily lost if I switch to, say, Digital Performer too... :crazy:

VOLOVIA wrote:However, thanks a lot, or a bunch if you are in the US, and as soon as I come across the glitchy/corrupt audio after Flex (and not being able to undo), I will post again.

No problems. :thumbup:
User avatar
desmond
Jedi Poster
Posts: 10084
Joined: Tue Jan 10, 2006 1:00 am
mu:zines | music magazine archive | difficultAudio

Re: New to Mac-Logic Pro X

Postby VOLOVIA » Thu Jul 30, 2020 11:24 am

And there you are... something I should have noticed
Basically - when checked, it's including pan position per track, which means a mono track will end up as the audio panned somewhere within a stereo track.
.
My 'justification' is that I 'need' the volume information but not the panning. Again, a wish list would be to select either. This is not very 'logic' (yes...), becase most mono tracks will include some forms of volume riding (vox for instance), but rarely panning (and obvioulsy, in this case you would have the track in stereo).
How boring and finicky I am.

Thanks again!
User avatar
VOLOVIA
Regular
Posts: 419
Joined: Thu Oct 01, 2009 12:00 am
Location: London
VOLOVIA - FACEBOOK - TWITTER Songwriter/guitarist

Re: New to Mac-Logic Pro X

Postby VOLOVIA » Mon Aug 03, 2020 3:51 am

https://www.dropbox.com/s/igkand658y0er ... c.jpg?dl=1

Ok, I hope you can see the image uploaded in dropbox as suggested long time ago by CS70.

That's the problem with the missing files (that I need no longer). On the left the message. No use of "locate" or "search" of course. Then it's fine. NO missing files in the song.

I go to the library inspector and it shows correctly the files tha LPX cannot find. No problems. I just highilight then and delete. It does not work. On the -exclamation- mark it says 'it cannot delete'. In the file itself as you can see, blurred, the delete option is inactive.

Scratching my greying scalp...

Thanks
User avatar
VOLOVIA
Regular
Posts: 419
Joined: Thu Oct 01, 2009 12:00 am
Location: London
VOLOVIA - FACEBOOK - TWITTER Songwriter/guitarist

Re: New to Mac-Logic Pro X

Postby desmond » Mon Aug 03, 2020 10:06 am

VOLOVIA wrote:That's the problem with the missing files (that I need no longer).

So you're opening a song and Logic can't find that audio file. Where actually is the audio file on your system?
Is that file actually used in the project, or do you want to remove it from the project?

There's something weird/suspicious looking about the path it's looking for (Main -> Main) which doesn't even look like a valid file path. I don't know how you managed to get that. Make sure in general you are saving your audio assets to the project (Logic will do this automatically for you as long as you have that option checked in the save project dialog.)

VOLOVIA wrote:I go to the library inspector and it shows correctly the files tha LPX cannot find. No problems. I just highilight then and delete. It does not work. On the -exclamation- mark it says 'it cannot delete'. In the file itself as you can see, blurred, the delete option is inactive.

If the file can't be found, then it's not in the location it should be (which we know from the location Logic is looking for in the missing files dialog, which isn't even a valid path), and delete won't work because you can't delete a file that isn't there. (Delete means removing it from the drive, not remove it from the project).

To remove that audio file reference from the project, just select the file and hit backspace to remove it from the audio files window, and save the project.
User avatar
desmond
Jedi Poster
Posts: 10084
Joined: Tue Jan 10, 2006 1:00 am
mu:zines | music magazine archive | difficultAudio

Re: New to Mac-Logic Pro X

Postby VOLOVIA » Mon Aug 03, 2020 10:24 am

Hi Desmond, thanks again for looking into my 'troubles'. My setup is very simple: A Mac Book Pro and the files are recorded into an external drive by USB. Nothing fancy. I don't use custom drives for samples etc. Effectively, I use it as a 'real' recorder with a couple of interfaces (guitar or USB mic).

Yes, I had noticed the funny path Main - Main, thus I have tried to locate/search manually. And here again a puzzling thing (for me): when I open the file folder with the waves, they are greyed out. What I do usually is record lots of snippets of vocals when I build my BVs up, then comb extensively the longer takes etc. Again, a 'tape recorder'.

I will make copies of the songs from the external drive to the built-in one (which is too slow to record properly on) and see if the 'main-main' path could 'satisfy' my confused LPX.

Another and final point. First I am sorry to refer back to Cubase, it is like saying "my mum cooked better than you" to a wife... but on my old software, all these problems could be sorted out very easily by exporting the song (backup function): only the files used in the project would be exported and I would end up with a clean and tidy new song version. Is it possible to do the same in Logic? Clearly, this would solve all problems and also unburden my drive of tons of long waves when maybe I only use three words from a long vocal take. Yes, I used the various "consolidate" functions, but the only thing that it seems to be doing is removing files associated with unusual tracks. Please be patient with me... :angel:

As a general comment, it will take me time to adapt to the "Mac Knows Better" philosophy, while on the PC it is all much more straightforward to locate files, access destinations etc., no "behind the scene" work. I think in the Mac when things work, they work very smoothly. The few occasion that they do not... When I said I had little experience on the Mac I meant with music software. I used them for work since the time of the Macintosh SE!
User avatar
VOLOVIA
Regular
Posts: 419
Joined: Thu Oct 01, 2009 12:00 am
Location: London
VOLOVIA - FACEBOOK - TWITTER Songwriter/guitarist

Re: New to Mac-Logic Pro X

Postby desmond » Mon Aug 03, 2020 10:35 am

VOLOVIA wrote:Hi Desmond, thanks again for looking into my 'troubles'. My setup is very simple: A Mac Book Pro and the files are recorded into an external drive by USB.

Is this the drive called "Main". Or is that your system drive? Or are they both called "Main"?

How is that drive formatted by the way? (You shouldn't be using Windows-formatted drives if you are)

VOLOVIA wrote: here again a puzzling thing (for me): when I open the file folder with the waves, they are greyed out.

It's difficult to say without being able to examine your system really. Could be drive format issues, permissions issues, many things.

VOLOVIA wrote:As a general comment, it will take me time to adapt to the "Mac Knows Better" philosophy, while on the PC it is all much more straightforward to locate files, access destinations etc., no "behind the scene" work.

No, it's not really more or less straightforward, it's probably just that you are more used to Windows conventions, that's all. Again, these are just expected small learning curve things.
User avatar
desmond
Jedi Poster
Posts: 10084
Joined: Tue Jan 10, 2006 1:00 am
mu:zines | music magazine archive | difficultAudio

Re: New to Mac-Logic Pro X

Postby VOLOVIA » Mon Aug 03, 2020 10:44 am

Yes, the built-in drive is the drive 'Main'. The external drive was formatted to Mac specs and partitioned half as an external drive and the rest as a backup (Time Machine).

I hate bothering people and I am the first to shout RTFM! Believe me, I spent hours trying to work out this Main-main issue and others I have been boring the readers with, but I obviuolsy failed.

I will mess around with the files (my Chinese) tonight, and see if by tranferring the song into the internal (Main) drive eases Logic's confusion. Thanks.

If it's ok, I will post the -results- tomorrow.
User avatar
VOLOVIA
Regular
Posts: 419
Joined: Thu Oct 01, 2009 12:00 am
Location: London
VOLOVIA - FACEBOOK - TWITTER Songwriter/guitarist

Re: New to Mac-Logic Pro X

Postby desmond » Mon Aug 03, 2020 11:08 am

Basically, to avoid problems with missing files (and other related issues), it's always recommend to save audio files to the project.

A workflow I'd recommend for your case - create a new project, call it, say "External Record", make sure include audio assets is checked, and save this project to your external drive.

(You can choose Package, which basically saves the audio "inside" the single, self-contained project file for convenience, or Folder if you want to be able to to easily get to the audio files later.)

(The audio recording path should be set by default to Project (File -> Project Settings -> Recording) but if you've set it to some specific path on your external drive, click the Project button to record to the project as you specifically want to record here).

Now, your audio files are saved as part of that project, and wherever you move that project, all audio assets it requires will always be with it, and thus Logic will never lose connection with them.
User avatar
desmond
Jedi Poster
Posts: 10084
Joined: Tue Jan 10, 2006 1:00 am
mu:zines | music magazine archive | difficultAudio

Re: New to Mac-Logic Pro X

Postby VOLOVIA » Mon Aug 03, 2020 11:18 am

I think I start seeing the reason for the confused Mac. The demos of the projects started as Garage Band songs (in the Main drive). Imported into Logic, then I saved them onto the external drive and carried on there. Maybe, just maybe, Logic, being logical, got confused with that...

Cheers
User avatar
VOLOVIA
Regular
Posts: 419
Joined: Thu Oct 01, 2009 12:00 am
Location: London
VOLOVIA - FACEBOOK - TWITTER Songwriter/guitarist

Re: New to Mac-Logic Pro X

Postby Dave Rowles » Wed Aug 05, 2020 2:54 pm

Desmond rocks on these sort of things.

On the FlexPitch front, you are right, sometimes altering pitch using it will create audible artefacts or glitches. It's usually when there is a very quick varying of pitch, and the detection system built into logic can't cope, but I've had it before on what I've thought were simple tasks.

It's great that they've built this kind of thing into logic, and it's good for basic projects, or quick easy tasks, but it's not as good as Melodyne. I'm often annoyed that I can see waveform, but Logic hasn't detected a pitch, or gives me any way of altering any part of that signal. If you're looking at doing a lot of pitch correct and want near artefact free, then I highly recommend getting Melodyne. It does the job a hell of a lot better.
User avatar
Dave Rowles
Frequent Poster
Posts: 1127
Joined: Thu Feb 28, 2008 1:00 am
Location: Isle of Man
http://www.manninmusic.com Bandcamp
Sound Engineer, Music Teacher, Isle of Man

Next