You are here

Do you render/bounce individual mix tracks/stems for archive/safety?

For everything after the recording stage: hardware/software and how you use it.

Do you render/bounce individual mix tracks/stems for archive/safety?

Postby Dr Huge Longjohns » Fri Aug 14, 2020 2:49 pm

So I just went into an old Logic project to tweak a mix I did a while ago but a couple of the effects plugins I used on the mix I no longer have. Not a big issue as I just replaced them with equivalents but made me wonder whether anybody bothers to bounce individual tracks within a mix for archive purposes so the fx are rendered with their track?
User avatar
Dr Huge Longjohns
Frequent Poster (Level2)
Posts: 3761
Joined: Thu Apr 10, 2003 12:00 am
Location: Gallifrey
"The performance is 99.9% of what people hear"- J. Leckie
"It's all complete nonsense, anyone who knows what they're doing can deliver great results with whatever comes to hand" - H. Robjohns

Re: Do you render/bounce individual mix tracks/stems for archive/safety?

Postby desmond » Fri Aug 14, 2020 3:08 pm

For important stuff, yes - I'll generally have the raw audio bounce, and an FX-rendered bounce if the FX is important and must be preserved, particularly if it requires third-party components that might not be available in the future.

You basically have to think "Ok, if none of my stuff was available years in the future when I'm looking at this project, what would I be able to recover and use and how would it affect being able to do what I would need to do with it".
User avatar
desmond
Jedi Poster
Posts: 10246
Joined: Tue Jan 10, 2006 1:00 am
mu:zines | music magazine archive | difficultAudio

Re: Do you render/bounce individual mix tracks/stems for archive/safety?

Postby blinddrew » Fri Aug 14, 2020 3:12 pm

The facetious answer would be that it's hard enough finding anyone to listen to the published mix let alone any archive stems... ;)
But in general, no. Once I've got something 'finished' I never tend to go back to it. Most of my stuff is built around audio tracks, or occasionally played-in midi, so as long as wav files and midi files exist I could always rebuild from scratch if I wanted to.
User avatar
blinddrew
Jedi Poster
Posts: 11558
Joined: Sun Jul 05, 2015 12:00 am
Location: York
Ignore the post count, I have no idea what I'm doing...

Re: Do you render/bounce individual mix tracks/stems for archive/safety?

Postby RichardT » Fri Aug 14, 2020 3:39 pm

I ifeel that I should but I don't. The risk I guess is of losing access to a plugin, which has happened to me in the past but not for a long time.
RichardT
Regular
Posts: 343
Joined: Fri Aug 13, 2004 12:00 am
Location: London UK

Re: Do you render/bounce individual mix tracks/stems for archive/safety?

Postby James Perrett » Fri Aug 14, 2020 3:53 pm

This is one of the reasons why I stick to using the built-in Reaper effects and just a small selection of third party plug-ins. I'm fairly confident that I'll be able to use all the plug-ins on any future machine as they are all licensed via portable serial numbers rather than any fancy licensing scheme that relies on being tied to one machine. The one exception is Izotope RX where I generally render a processed file anyway.

I think Reaper counts as my 4th DAW. I still have my previous DAW (Adobe Audition) installed so I can go back to sessions from about 1998 onwards although I relied on Waves plug-ins for earlier sessions which I can no longer use. It was the experience of being left high and dry with Waves that lead to my avoidance of third party plug-ins that use anything more onerous than a simple serial number.
User avatar
James Perrett
Moderator
Posts: 9773
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2001 12:00 am
Location: The wilds of Hampshire
JRP Music - Audio Mastering and Restoration. JRP Music Facebook Page

Re: Do you render/bounce individual mix tracks/stems for archive/safety?

Postby Dr Huge Longjohns » Fri Aug 14, 2020 4:25 pm

t was the experience of being left high and dry with Waves

Yep, the plugs in question were Waves ones. I've totally had it with Waves and their stupid update\licensing scheme etc hence them not working.
User avatar
Dr Huge Longjohns
Frequent Poster (Level2)
Posts: 3761
Joined: Thu Apr 10, 2003 12:00 am
Location: Gallifrey
"The performance is 99.9% of what people hear"- J. Leckie
"It's all complete nonsense, anyone who knows what they're doing can deliver great results with whatever comes to hand" - H. Robjohns

Re: Do you render/bounce individual mix tracks/stems for archive/safety?

Postby Martin Walker » Fri Aug 14, 2020 5:33 pm

Yep, I abandoned Waves some years back, largely because any time I wanted to use one of them I ended up going in circles round updates and dongle issues.

The only one I still hanker after using is their S1 Stereo Imager.


Martin
User avatar
Martin Walker
Moderator
Posts: 16378
Joined: Wed Jan 13, 2010 9:44 am
Location: Cornwall, UK

Re: Do you render/bounce individual mix tracks/stems for archive/safety?

Postby Arpangel » Fri Aug 14, 2020 5:47 pm

blinddrew wrote:The facetious answer would be that it's hard enough finding anyone to listen to the published mix let alone any archive stems... ;)
But in general, no. Once I've got something 'finished' I never tend to go back to it. Most of my stuff is built around audio tracks, or occasionally played-in midi, so as long as wav files and midi files exist I could always rebuild from scratch if I wanted to.

I’m a bit more rash, I never keep any finished stuff in my DAW, it all gets deleted, stereo stuff, and multitrack.
User avatar
Arpangel
Jedi Poster
Posts: 5286
Joined: Sat Jul 12, 2003 12:00 am

Re: Do you render/bounce individual mix tracks/stems for archive/safety?

Postby Dr Huge Longjohns » Fri Aug 14, 2020 6:06 pm

The only one I still hanker after using is their S1 Stereo Imager.

Don't know precisely what Waves S1 does but the free Ozone one is excellent if you haven't already got it...https://www.izotope.com/en/products/free-audio-plug-ins.html
User avatar
Dr Huge Longjohns
Frequent Poster (Level2)
Posts: 3761
Joined: Thu Apr 10, 2003 12:00 am
Location: Gallifrey
"The performance is 99.9% of what people hear"- J. Leckie
"It's all complete nonsense, anyone who knows what they're doing can deliver great results with whatever comes to hand" - H. Robjohns

Re: Do you render/bounce individual mix tracks/stems for archive/safety?

Postby James Perrett » Fri Aug 14, 2020 6:43 pm

Martin Walker wrote:The only one I still hanker after using is their S1 Stereo Imager.

The JS Stereo Field Manipulator comes close although it doesn't look quite as good.
User avatar
James Perrett
Moderator
Posts: 9773
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2001 12:00 am
Location: The wilds of Hampshire
JRP Music - Audio Mastering and Restoration. JRP Music Facebook Page

Re: Do you render/bounce individual mix tracks/stems for archive/safety?

Postby The Elf » Fri Aug 14, 2020 9:50 pm

I render EVERYTHING. Even one week down the line you may need to re-do something and you can't be sure you will be able to.
User avatar
The Elf
Jedi Poster
Posts: 14986
Joined: Tue Aug 14, 2001 12:00 am
Location: Sheffield, UK
An Eagle for an Emperor, A Kestrel for a Knave.

Re: Do you render/bounce individual mix tracks/stems for archive/safety?

Postby Martin Walker » Sat Aug 15, 2020 12:01 am

Dr Huge Longjohns wrote:
The only one I still hanker after using is their S1 Stereo Imager.

Don't know precisely what Waves S1 does but the free Ozone one is excellent if you haven't already got it...https://www.izotope.com/en/products/free-audio-plug-ins.html

Thanks Huge - I do already have that one, but it's primarily a stereo width enhancer. The special feature of the Waves S1 Imager for me was its Blumlein shuffling, as I described in this SOS feature:

https://www.soundonsound.com/techniques ... c-plug-ins

"S1 also has a very useful Shuffle control that lets you further increase stereo width at lower frequencies (typically below 600Hz, as set by the associated Frequency control). This compensates for the fact that the ear is less sensitive to stereo bass effects, so you can either use Shuffle to sharpen stereo imaging in an existing mix, while leaving its width unaltered, or further widen the bass end, for a feeling of increased spaciousness at the expense of less precise imaging. Shuffling only affects non-central sounds, so you can use it to widen the bass end of other instruments in the mix without disturbing the level or imaging of centrally panned kick drum and bass guitars (this should keep the 'mono bass is tighter' camp happy)."


James Perrett wrote:The JS Stereo Field Manipulator comes close although it doesn't look quite as good.

Reaper to the rescue once again! Just explored that one, and it does work very well for the Rotation and Symmetry aspects of the S1 Imager.

However, I also discovered the JS Stereo Enhancer, which DOES offer the Width Low and Crossover frequency of the S1 Imager, as well as a Width High control, so now I'm very happy :thumbup:

Thanks both!


Martin
User avatar
Martin Walker
Moderator
Posts: 16378
Joined: Wed Jan 13, 2010 9:44 am
Location: Cornwall, UK

Re: Do you render/bounce individual mix tracks/stems for archive/safety?

Postby James Perrett » Sat Aug 15, 2020 12:36 am

Martin Walker wrote:However, I also discovered the JS Stereo Enhancer, which DOES offer the Width Low and Crossover frequency of the S1 Imager, as well as a Width High control, so now I'm very happy :thumbup:

I've never really explored the Blumlein Shuffling that S1 offered - maybe it is time that I did!
User avatar
James Perrett
Moderator
Posts: 9773
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2001 12:00 am
Location: The wilds of Hampshire
JRP Music - Audio Mastering and Restoration. JRP Music Facebook Page

Re: Do you render/bounce individual mix tracks/stems for archive/safety?

Postby blinddrew » Sat Aug 15, 2020 9:32 am

I use imager quite often but it is quite resource-heavy. I'll check out the JS ones as they tend to be pretty easy on the old CPU. :thumbup:
User avatar
blinddrew
Jedi Poster
Posts: 11558
Joined: Sun Jul 05, 2015 12:00 am
Location: York
Ignore the post count, I have no idea what I'm doing...

Re: Do you render/bounce individual mix tracks/stems for archive/safety?

Postby Dr Huge Longjohns » Sat Aug 15, 2020 10:34 am

I render EVERYTHING. Even one week down the line you may need to re-do something and you can't be sure you will be able to.

Do you keep both, then? The rendered and the raw tracks with plugs?
User avatar
Dr Huge Longjohns
Frequent Poster (Level2)
Posts: 3761
Joined: Thu Apr 10, 2003 12:00 am
Location: Gallifrey
"The performance is 99.9% of what people hear"- J. Leckie
"It's all complete nonsense, anyone who knows what they're doing can deliver great results with whatever comes to hand" - H. Robjohns

Next