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Record “fake” overhead drums

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Re: Record “fake” overhead drums

Postby Hjlphilp » Tue Sep 22, 2020 11:59 pm

First off bro, thank you for even presenting the idea... imma try it any way cause I have a stereo mic lol... even if it aint the best, its still got sauce! Might be a different tone that makes your stuff stand out

I can wait to try what Hugh said out too!

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Re: Record “fake” overhead drums

Postby blinddrew » Wed Sep 23, 2020 9:36 am

I did once record an overhead mic on an electric drumkit because I was using brushes, so i just blended a bit of the brush 'tsh' into the recorded drum sound.
I wouldn't say it was a resounding success though.
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Re: Record “fake” overhead drums

Postby Tomás Mulcahy » Wed Sep 23, 2020 11:34 am

desmond wrote:Audience perspective panning in that default preset though... I mean, seriously... :shock: :crazy: :headbang:

:lol:
Yea people really get their nickers in a twist about that :lol:. I always do it audience perspective but it's not ever hard panning because that's not what anyone hears in real life.
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Re: Record “fake” overhead drums

Postby desmond » Wed Sep 23, 2020 11:36 am

I wonder if more people that have actually played drums for real prefer drummer perspective, and folks that have never played drums tend to prefer audience perspective?

C'mon students, there's an undergrad thesis for the taking in there, I'm sure...!
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Re: Record “fake” overhead drums

Postby Sam Spoons » Wed Sep 23, 2020 11:45 am

I've noticed that live sound engineers fall into two camps, those who play drums and those who don't. The latter configure the drum channels from the audiences perspective and the former from the drummers. Since 90% of PA systems are running dual mono it makes no difference from the audiences PoV*.

FWIW Giltrap's Heartsong, with that iconic room wide tom fill, has the drums panned from the drummers perspective (unless he was a left hander...)

* It is, actually only the toms that change as every sound guy I have worked with puts the kick, snare and hat first and overheads last (TBH I've never asked what perspective the overheads are panned).
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Re: Record “fake” overhead drums

Postby blinddrew » Wed Sep 23, 2020 11:47 am

My take on it is, if you spend all this time with panning and reverb delays to create a credible soundstage, why would you then put the drummer facing the wrong way? That would be a weird gig. :)
I've heard the argument that it's only drummers who notice and they expect it to sound like it does when they play, but a) I think this underestimates the general listener, and b) do drummers never go to other gigs and listen to other drummers? :headbang:
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Re: Record “fake” overhead drums

Postby Sam Spoons » Wed Sep 23, 2020 1:19 pm

It's a bad as all those youtube and fb videos presented in mirror image :headbang:
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Re: Record “fake” overhead drums

Postby The Elf » Wed Sep 23, 2020 10:50 pm

Tomás Mulcahy wrote:
desmond wrote:Audience perspective panning in that default preset though... I mean, seriously... :shock: :crazy: :headbang:

:lol:
Yea people really get their nickers in a twist about that :lol:. I always do it audience perspective but it's not ever hard panning because that's not what anyone hears in real life.
I pan overheads full L/R, because the close mic's live inside this space - and it sounds natural.

And always drummer's perspective for me - else it sounds weird.
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Re: Record “fake” overhead drums

Postby The Elf » Wed Sep 23, 2020 10:56 pm

Sam Spoons wrote:FWIW Giltrap's Heartsong, with that iconic room wide tom fill, has the drums panned from the drummers perspective (unless he was a left hander...)
Simon Phillips.

The drumming on that track still makes my knees shake.
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Re: Record “fake” overhead drums

Postby resistorman » Thu Sep 24, 2020 5:09 am

The Elf wrote:And always drummer's perspective for me - else it sounds weird.

Well, being both a bass player and a FOH engineer most of my life, I choose the FOH perspective when I mix in the studio. My bass player perspective would probably not be well accepted.
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Re: Record “fake” overhead drums

Postby djangodeadman » Thu Sep 24, 2020 5:23 am

Sam Spoons wrote:* It is, actually only the toms that change as every sound guy I have worked with puts the kick, snare and hat first and overheads last (TBH I've never asked what perspective the overheads are panned).

Kick, Snare, Hat, Rack(s), Floor(s), O/H left, O/R right for me, which actually makes no sense with a right-handed drummer (although I do the same if the drummer is left-handed!). I’ve never had another engineer complain when I’ve laid it out like that, though.
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Re: Record “fake” overhead drums

Postby Moroccomoose » Thu Sep 24, 2020 7:30 am

My solution to this, which will enable us all to live in peace and harmony.... We have a 'Drummer's wiring protocol where they simply swap the red and the white plugs over...simples :beamup:

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Re: Record “fake” overhead drums

Postby CS70 » Thu Sep 24, 2020 8:02 am

Sam Spoons wrote:I've noticed that live sound engineers fall into two camps

Those who care, and those who don't! :bouncy:
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Re: Record “fake” overhead drums

Postby Sam Spoons » Thu Sep 24, 2020 10:17 am

CS70 wrote:
Sam Spoons wrote:I've noticed that live sound engineers fall into two camps

Those who care, and those who don't! :bouncy:

:headbang:

The Elf wrote:I pan overheads full L/R, because the close mic's live inside this space - and it sounds natural.

And always drummer's perspective for me - else it sounds weird.

I really don't get that, close eyes, visualise drummer on stage in front of you (Simon Phillips, 1977, first live concert supporting the album) he plays that iconic tom fill and you watch him play the drums from high to low, right to left from your sound desk perspective, the sound coming out of the speakers goes left to right!!!!!
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Re: Record “fake” overhead drums

Postby Luke W » Thu Sep 24, 2020 10:29 am

I always prefer audience perspective panning because of the visual side of things that Sam mentions. Although live gigs of any size it'll likely be in mono anyway (or at least it probably should be) and with recordings I suppose there is no visual for it to match up to. I dare say that a lot of people probably wouln't notice or care either way though.

Hard panning on anything other than the overheads paints a very strange picture of a drum kit for me personally.
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