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Feedback on classical piano with strings

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Feedback on classical piano with strings

Postby mkeihl » Thu Nov 02, 2017 10:00 pm

Hello,


Would very much appreciate some feedback on this mix which is a piano piece with trombone and string orchestra.
Going to publish the song like this as part of an EP. Unless you guys can find some horrendous mistaes about the mix :P

Thanks in advance.

https://soundcloud.com/michael-keihl/in ... ix-request
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Re: Feedback on classical piano with strings

Postby Tim Gillett » Fri Nov 03, 2017 2:44 am

These things can be a matter of personal preference. Pleasant music but for me the sound is not pleasant. The string orchestra sounds shrill and thin, and with too much or inappropriate reverb. I can hear squeaky sounding, reverb drenched violins but not much else. I thought I could hear a cello but only its harmonics. It doesnt sound real or natural but maybe that's not what you were aiming for.
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Re: Feedback on classical piano with strings

Postby Ariosto » Fri Nov 03, 2017 5:47 pm

I have to agree! Were those real string players? The sound of the piano was not good either. A very thick mix with no air or shading.

Sorry, but well, you did ask!!
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Re: Feedback on classical piano with strings

Postby mkeihl » Fri Nov 03, 2017 7:55 pm

Could you let me know please if this version is better in your opinion? https://soundcloud.com/michael-keihl/innocence-wav
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Re: Feedback on classical piano with strings

Postby Ariosto » Fri Nov 03, 2017 8:56 pm

Well, marginally better - less reverb - but the sound is still very congested and at the same time edgy. They still do not sound like real string players, and the piano is very clunky. But you and others may disagree, so it could be a matter of personal taste.
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Re: Feedback on classical piano with strings

Postby ConcertinaChap » Fri Nov 03, 2017 9:31 pm

Listening a second time it's still a nice composition and a nice arrangement, but I have to agree about the strings. I'm no great expert (not even a small expert) on sampled strings but I think you should scrap that sound and start afresh with something that sounds more naturalistic. I think the work would be best served by as "realistic" and close to live sound as possible in general. Best of luck with it.

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Re: Feedback on classical piano with strings

Postby mkeihl » Fri Nov 03, 2017 11:21 pm

Thanks for the feedback it all helps. The strings are real recording. I didn't do the mix myself, I'm just trying to make adjustments.

I attempted to make it a bit wider and doing some EQ/parallell compression tweaks.

If it is any better or worse then let me know.

Again, thanks for all the feedback.


https://soundcloud.com/michael-keihl/innocence-v3
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Re: Feedback on classical piano with strings

Postby Tim Gillett » Sat Nov 04, 2017 2:09 am

If I was given this as a mix and asked to improve it I'm not sure I could do much. There are fundamental things wrong with the it. I'd seek access to the unmixed stem tracks before processing/mixing took place and see what could be done with them.
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Re: Feedback on classical piano with strings

Postby Ariosto » Sat Nov 04, 2017 10:11 am

Yes, I think Tim is right. It was so badly recorded in the first place. I can't believe they were real string players! In the last version the piano sounds a bit better, but I don't think you can do much else with the strings.

I think for many people strings are hard to record. For example a colleague of my wife's has a small jazz group with him playing piano (his own arrangements) with some strings. They were on "In Tune" on BBC Radio 3 and it sounded reasonably good. However, they made a CD with someone else recording and balancing the same arrangements and it was awful, especially the strings. This was not just my opinion but others as well.
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Re: Feedback on classical piano with strings

Postby Dave B » Sat Nov 04, 2017 10:12 am

FWIW, I'd make 2 recommendations :

1. The piano sounds like it's a sampled piano - and not a great one at that. So I'd be tempted to take the raw midi data, replay it on a more appropriate piano sound and tweak the performance slightly to match. To me, it needs something a touch brighter sounding and with a nice rich sustain and it's played a bit 'all one level' and something like this needs different touches to bring out the sound of the piano more. I'd also vary the tempo as it starts then lock it down later to give it a more natural flow.

2. If the orchestra parts are fixed, then I'd turn to some decent string patches on either my Kronos or Kurzweil to 'beef them up' and subtly give the sound a little more body and compensate for some of the levels being a bit varied. It should be possible to do this at a low level and the Kronos has great string patches which aren't hyper-realistic, but are fantastic as a 'wash' underneath natural sounds.

obviously, just my 2c and ymmv
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Re: Feedback on classical piano with strings

Postby DC-Choppah » Sat Nov 04, 2017 2:33 pm

It's a nice song that builds interest and makes some musical drama along the way and reaches a climax and concludes nicely.

This does not sound like a real recording of a piano and strings. Any classical listener will tune this out as being fake sounding. There is no three-dimensional sound to the instruments. We cannot imagine them on a stage playing. The stereo image is not present. The piano needs to be spatially separated from the strings but is not. For these kind of things we know what they should sound like if they are real so we are clued in immediately that this sounds fake. The MIDI piano is unacceptable for this kind of music. The reverb sound is unnatural and too much. The strings lack clarity.

For classical stuff you need to use realistic stereo recording techniques, high fidelity, low noise, all that kind of stuff. The performance needs to be perfect since it is so exposed. You can't compensate for these things in the mix. Sorry.
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Re: Feedback on classical piano with strings

Postby CS70 » Sat Nov 04, 2017 5:45 pm

Just listened on an iPhone 7 speaker, so not the most revealing of systems. I have no idea on how things should sound, as I’m not a great expert on classical music. For the piano, I don’t find it particularly unrealistic - I could welll figure out its a real not super great piano. The player feels a little mechanical, he/she/it doesn’t seem to have much movement in his playing. Either because it’s a computer, or just a less experienced player. The strings, it seems that whoever has done the mix wanted to make them a pop background - that’s a bit how they sound. If that’s what they are supposed to be, I would use some mid/side or Eq to carve even more space for the piano,, so it would be a statement, with no doubt that it’s an accidental result of bad mixing or recording.
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Re: Feedback on classical piano with strings

Postby mkeihl » Sat Nov 04, 2017 7:47 pm

Thanks for all your replies. I might make someone do a remix of this, but I suspect it is the recording of the strings that is an issue here.
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Re: Feedback on classical piano with strings

Postby ConcertinaChap » Sun Nov 05, 2017 12:48 pm

From what you say you're struggling with the results of someone else's recording. Much sympathy for that. One thing you can take heart from is that pretty well everyone has said the composition itself is good and worth persevering with. I wish you luck with getting it sorted.

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Re: Feedback on classical piano with strings

Postby mkeihl » Fri Nov 10, 2017 3:56 pm

So, we've attempted to make a new mix of this classical, piano piece. Let me know what you think of this version compared to the old one, if you would be so kind. =]

https://soundcloud.com/michael-keihl/in ... ack-please
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